Tackling controversial issues

[Efergoh]

we aren't exactly living in dystopian caveman dog eat dog world.

From where I stand, we are.

...hey if everyone has guns, it doesn't mean that everyone is safe.

No, it does not. But, it does level the playing field. An armed woman (or man for that matter) can more readily fend off an armed attack than one who is unarmed.

there has to be a better way - and i dont think violence is ever the answer.

I disagree. If someone were to offer me violence, I have every intention of giving them more violence in return than they can handle. Criminals and thugs only understand violence. Reason and civility does not enter their thinking. If it did, they would not be criminals and thugs.

The late Col. Jeff Cooper (USMC, retired) once said that "a rifle is an inanimate object, and therefore has no will of its own. It is neither good nor evil. And while an evil man will not be persuaded by propaganda, he may certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."

 

[Efergoh]

I was just about to suggest that the OP do his photos but use mannequins rather than living females. That would emphasize the objectification of females by predatory men...

That actually isn't a bad idea. Thanks, I'll consider it.

 

[craig]

I love the ideas in your original post. I get the cell phone and cord thought. I picture the violence as the effect that love has on us. I mean that a gun or knife wounds are Disneyland compared to the way I feel when a dear one breaks my heart. Certainly violence is appalling. I think if you convey your feelings as opposed to a message the shots will be more effective. Whatever you do stay away from the examples you posted.

Sensitive issues on a forum is tough. We go around in circles because no one is right. Gets slightly tough to read. Let us stick to the world of photography.

 

[JohnMF]

The links listed below are images that were shot by Oleg Volk www.olegvolk.net

These links relate to what I am trying to do. These are a bit more light than what I intend, and I am not trying to emulate his style. These are a bit commercial to me, though...

http://www.olegvolk.net/gallery/d/5233-2/proportional6909.jpg

http://www.olegvolk.net/gallery/d/5299-2/deadbeaten.jpg

http://www.olegvolk.net/gallery/d/5131-2/trumped7562_001.gif

these look really tacky, you would do well not to emulate his "style"

 

[The_Traveler]

we aren't exactly living in dystopian caveman dog eat dog world

From where I stand, we are.

It seems to me that you need to realize that no matter how much you miss it, you aren't wearing a uniform and carrying a rifle any more.

This is the real world, not a Taxi Driver scenario where you are some on-the-edge Sergeant of Marines warrior against the bad guys. Real life isn't as simple as that, there are few Good versus Evil situations. You will have to understand that or you will grow old and unhappy, hoping for a clarity and a role that doesn't exist.

 

[Aquarium Dreams]

Efergoh,

Do you think that more violent crimes against women could be prevented simply by providing women with assertiveness training?

 

[morydd]

I'll not comment on the politcs here other than to say, I'm in favor of both an armed populace and incredibly scrict gun control. If you want to know how I work that, PM me.

Photographically, from the orignial description, I feel that the message you're trying to get across (Active defence can be more effective than passive defence, in my understanding and attempting to reduce it to the most basic level) is likely to be lost to the baggage that _everyone_ brings to the table when guns and/or rape are involved. Unfortunately, I think that no matter how you compose the pictures, the message you would like to send will be overwhelmed by the message that each of us already has in our heads about these aspects of life. What would be most artistically pleasing, and potentially effective in my mind, is if you could portray the same feeling without using sex or weapons. I can't give you the slightest hint how to accomplish that. If I could, I'd (attempt to) do it myself because I think it would be an amazing acheivement.

Regardless of the motivations for taking such pictures, I believe you must do so. From your other work it's obvious that you've found a way, through your photography, to exorcise some of your demons. I wish my photography allowed me to do the same. Best of luck to you. I'll be interested to see the results.

 

[xfloggingkylex]

From where I stand, we are.

No, it does not. But, it does level the playing field. An armed woman (or man for that matter) can more readily fend off an armed attack than one who is unarmed.

I disagree. If someone were to offer me violence, I have every intention of giving them more violence in return than they can handle. Criminals and thugs only understand violence. Reason and civility does not enter their thinking. If it did, they would not be criminals and thugs.

The late Col. Jeff Cooper (USMC, retired) once said that "a rifle is an inanimate object, and therefore has no will of its own. It is neither good nor evil. And while an evil man will not be persuaded by propaganda, he may certainly be corrected by good men with rifles."

again I want to point out that your attitude toward violence goes against what you are trying to stop. You cant be a hypocrite and say, "don't be violent or I'll kill you" it just doesn't work like that.

And guess what, the police have guns and they still get shot at. Gang members have guns, and they still get shot. Packing heat doesn't solve the problem, it just means the "thugs" have to be a little more strategic in their attack (i.e. sneaking up on a woman so she doesn't have time to grab her gun, or knock her out so she cant reach for a weapon).

 

[Efergoh]

Efergoh,

Do you think that more violent crimes against women could be prevented simply by providing women with assertiveness training?

Absolutely!

I'm not saying that everyone should go buy a pistol, stick it in their purse or pocket and forget about it. It goes way beyond that. To me, the use of a firearm in anger is a last ditch effort. If the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

The #1 way to deter a violent attack is simple situational awareness. I see people every day wandering about either in a fog or wrapped up in their own lives when they are out and about that makes them easy marks. Seeing a potential for danger is the best way to avoid it.

Being assertive is a double edged sword at times. If you carry yourself with purpose, your appearance alone might make a criminal move on to an easier target. But, once cornered, assertiveness alone without the tools for defense could prove disastrous.

Also, the owning and carrying of arms requires a certain mindset as well as the training to employ. If you aren't willing to aquire both, then carrying a firearm is not for you.

The photos described are displays of the polar opposites of the spectrum.

 

[Efergoh]

Packing heat doesn't solve the problem, it just means the "thugs" have to be a little more strategic in their attack (i.e. sneaking up on a woman so she doesn't have time to grab her gun, or knock her out so she cant reach for a weapon).

And by not having the tools to defend yourself, you will have to be a little more strategic in your retreat (run faster than the bullet)

I didn't say that simply carrying one would solve the problem. But it gives you the same type of teeth as the wolf.

 

[Efergoh]

This is the real world, not a Taxi Driver scenario where you are some on-the-edge Sergeant of Marines warrior against the bad guys.

No, I'm not. I'm just an ordinary person who is willing to do whatever he needs to do to ensure that I get to go home at the end of each day.

Fact of the matter is that there is real evil in this world. I see it in my neighborhood every day. The drug pushers, the drug users, the hookers, the wife beaters. This is a violent world, and that violence is not limited to the lower end of the socioeconomic ladder. You are certainly free to live your life with blinders on if you will. I choose not to because I am surrounded by that violent world. No, that isn't paranoia, that is geography.

 

[xfloggingkylex]

And by not having the tools to defend yourself, you will have to be a little more strategic in your retreat (run faster than the bullet)

I didn't say that simply carrying one would solve the problem. But it gives you the same type of teeth as the wolf.

I just feel you are going about it the wrong way. Instead of matching firepower, why dont we stop it at the source?

 

[Aquarium Dreams]

Instead of matching firepower, why dont we stop it at the source?

That sounds good, but how do you suggest we do that?

 

[RMThompson]

No, I'm not. I'm just an ordinary person who is willing to do whatever he needs to do to ensure that I get to go home at the end of each day.

Fact of the matter is that there is real evil in this world. I see it in my neighborhood every day. The drug pushers, the drug users, the hookers, the wife beaters. This is a violent world, and that violence is not limited to the lower end of the socioeconomic ladder. You are certainly free to live your life with blinders on if you will. I choose not to because I am surrounded by that violent world. No, that isn't paranoia, that is geography.

Prostitution is EVIL?

Crap... there goes my side-job!

 

[PetersCreek]

I was really trying to avoid this but there have been so many careless mischaracterizations bandied about, I feel compelled to respond.

Armed citizens, by and large, do not "live in fear"...at least no more so than the anyone else. I'm one of them and I live a life much like others here. I don't think I'm Rambo...or a super cop...or a vigilante...nor do I have any other macho fantasy self image. It's not a fetish object. It's a tool. I have fire extinguishers in my home...I have a first aid kit and winter survival gear in my truck...and I carry a firearm for personal defense. None of that makes me anything more than a guy trying to prudently look out for himself and his loved ones.

It's not about us "living in dystopian caveman dog eat dog world." It doesn't have to be bad all over to be really bad at just one moment, in just one place. I live in a great city in a great state and wouldn't live anywhere else. But like any other community, we have our problems here and there. Bad things do happen to good people and it isn't always on "that side of town".

We don't always take precautions because an undesired event is likely. Sometimes, we take precautions because the consequences of that event, no matter how remote the possibility, are grave. If I carry my firearm today and don't need it...yah-freakin'-hoo. I'll gladly live the rest of my life never having to use it for self defense. But if I do ever need it...I'm really going to need it. I know people who had the need, had the firearm, and I'm glad they're still here today.

Now, if you're one of those folks with philosophies about cutting violence off at the source, not answering violence with violence, etc...more power to you. Good luck. I mean that. Just don't ask us to forego our personal defense for the sake of your social experiment. And while you're at it, please spare us the uninformed stereotypes about gun owners gleaned from too many movies, television, news media, or perhaps your own personal prejudices. It gets old. Quick.