The Art Of Critique

[The_Traveler]

These are the step I do in post processing/evaluating an image and how the steps fit in technical workflow.

• Is the basic exposure, focus, dof good enough to make a good final image? - ACCEPT/REJECT
• Do I need to reduce the noise? NOISE REDUCTION on new layer
• Are there hints at the correct horizontal or vertical that are contradicted by strong elements in the frame? ROTATE
• Is the object of interest placed well within the frame CROP
• Do I need to change the levels,contrast, hue or saturation globally? ADJUSTMENT LAYER
• What kind of global sharpening do I use? NEW MERGED LAYER
• Do I need to change the levels,contrast, hue or saturation on specific areas to improve the overall image? ADJUSTMENTS ON DUP LAYER WITH LAYER MASKS
• Is there a need for sharpening/desharpening specific areas? NEW MERGED LAYERs/layer masks

I often end with lots of layers, some of which I may throw away.

Most important of all, does the image have some meaning or impact that causes me to think or feel something that extends beyond the content of the frame.
This impact may overwhelm any technical deficiencies.

 

[One Sister]

This is the workflow I use when doing PP

• Is the basic exposure, focus, dof good enough to make a good final image?
• Do I need to reduce the noise?
• Are there hints at the correct horizontal or vertical that are contradicted by strong elements in the frame?
• Is the object of interest placed well within the frame
• Do I need to change the levels,contrast, hue or saturation globally?
• What kind of global sharpening do I use?
• Do I need to change the levels,contrast, hue or saturation on specific areas to improve the overall image?
• Is there a need for sharpening/desharpening specific areas?

This covers what I would do, and in reverse are the issues I look at for technical points.

Most of all I look at the impact of the image, if it makes me think of or feel something beyond the actual content of the frame.
This impact may be enough to override any potential technical deficiencies.

Ahhhh, this is what I'm talking about. Thank you. I knew there must be criteria that good critique must follow and, The_Traveler, I appreciate your critique. The most of all above is what I'm trying to sort out. Quite helpful.

 

[The_Traveler]

Ahhhh, this is what I'm talking about. Thank you. I knew there must be criteria that good critique must follow and, The_Traveler, I appreciate your critique. The most of all above is what I'm trying to sort out. Quite helpful.

These aren't the steps, just what I do.

When I set out to spend time on a critique of an image, I download it and try lots of these steps to look at what it could be potentially, before I say anything.

 

[One Sister]

These aren't the steps, just what I do.

When I set out to spend time on a critique of an image, I download it and try lots of these steps to look at what it could be potentially, before I say anything.

I think I understand. I'm very interested in the post technical issues. What determines the level of artistry? I think you critiqued one of my images before and said "look at the impact of the image, if it makes me think of or feel something beyond the actual content of the frame"... Sorry, it just hit me. This is what I needed to understand. When the student is ready a teacher will appear...

 

[fightheheathens]

some people take them selves way to seriously.



and


poop.

 

[Alpha]

This should be a simple task for a trained eye.

1) Is the exposure correct?
2) Is the composition interesting?
3) What (if any) is/are the subject(s)? Are they interesting?
4) Is the image sharp?
5) Is there good tone variation?
6) Is the depth of field interesting/appropriate?

To the end of each of these, add:
a) If not, does this detract from the quality of the photo? How much?
b) If not, was it intentional? And to what effect?

As far as I'm concerned, these are the fundamental questions you should first ask in any and all critique. Then you can start making more nuanced judgments of aesthetics, emotional appeal, etc.

 

[One Sister]

Alpha, would you mind speaking more about the "etc."? Although, I appreciate your work flow, I'll be taking it under advisement as well as The_Traveler's, I'm particularly interested in the "nuanced judgments". As much as you're willing to share about emotional appeal and aesthetics is particularly interesting to me. Is any focused, well lit and cropped polar bear (whale, wolf, fill in the blank here) art?

 

[kellylindseyphotography]

But photography is art - thus part of art is the end result - its never going to please all, but if it does not then there is no reason not to say anything. You just have to do so in a polite manner.
Also if you give the "wrong" technical advice I would expect others to suddenly appear and "correct" it - or to give thier views because chances are that even if its not your area you are making these assessments based on your understanding which might very well be the same thoughts that the photographer is thinking but not saying.

All in all I say say what you will and crit who and what you want - but in all cases speak (write) in a respectful manner and even if you hate a shot alwasy look for the good points in it -- there are very few shots which are all bad, most have a few good points which can be praised and then you can get on a say what and where the bad parts are

Here's the thing, in which a few have said it pretty bluntly and I said it in my first post- Always consider the source.

If there's 500 newbs, every single one of them replys to your thread, what can you take away from that? Are they newbs to photography? Or to the forum? Do they have ANY iota of a clue?

Its been pointed out that there's a lot of mediocre work being posted and to me, it's hard to critique mediocre work. Like the other day, someone posted a picture. Underexposed, in direct sunlight. A little blown out whites. Not a great expression on the subjects face.

What do you say?? If they don't GET that as a reject photo from the get-go and felt it was worthy to post for a critique... I mean... I can't be bothered. If you don't know that underexposed badly lit pictures are just BAD, then I dunno how to really help that properly.
Its not to say that my sh*t doesn't stink, don't mistake what I'm saying.

However, in the example I mentioned, I actually DID reply to the poster and even attempted a conversion for them.

But overall... I think when basic stuff is totally ignored such as focus or exposure issues... its just hard to give any feedback at all.

 

[skieur]

Because this forum takes critique less seriously than it did in the past and tends to be rather precipitate in closing down some discussions, I tend to take this forum less seriously and do not submit photos. My photographic work is elsewhere and I am on the admin in a professional site.

I find it interesting that some characterize critique as "mean", "rude" "demeaning", "aggressive" and several other adjectives but then end off by saying that it is often "accurate".

The standards for critique can be found on most photography camera club, photography organization or several other sites including www.photoinf.com as an example. They come basically from the elements of design that are part of any art curriculum taught in schools plus the contribution of technical technique and approaches to the overall quality of the image. It is NOT rocket science. Anyone TRULY interested in and committed to photography as either a hobby or a profession should know this and that includes moderators as well.

Even camera clubs composed of amateurs and a few professionals do not baby or molly coddle members whether they are new to photography or not. Credibility is key. A great photo is a great photo, but equally poor, weak shots are garbage. Phony praise is counter productive, even if it is for the purpose of encouragement. If you get too easily insulted, then you will never improve your ability to take photos.

Some amateurs want to ignore the standards that are part of photography and standards are part of any art or hobby and make the difference between quality work and garbage. Any pro in the big leagues, is subject to the standards as they are applied by art directors in charge of accepting photos, articles, displays etc. for show or print. Certainly any amateur can ignore these standards just as anyone can choose not to learn and improve in any hobby or profession.

As I indicated in a thread that was quickly locked, some people want to learn about photography and some people don't. It is up to the moderators and site owner to determine which members are desired on THE PHOTOFORUM.

skieur

 

[One Sister]

Excellent points. Excellent web site with list of links. Thank you.

 

[Overread]

What do you say?? If they don't GET that as a reject photo from the get-go and felt it was worthy to post for a critique... I mean... I can't be bothered. If you don't know that underexposed badly lit pictures are just BAD, then I dunno how to really help that properly.
Its not to say that my sh*t doesn't stink, don't mistake what I'm saying.

Thing is this;
here is one of my first early photos'

I posted this in another site long before I came to here - at the time I was proud that I had shot this photo and a part of me still is because I can see where I have gone right in it = however it was only (at the time) through the comments of others and through not only their comments, but advice and enthusiasm that I improved to where I am today. I still have a long way to go though.
Now some might say that I was "lazy" because I did not read all the books or research round photography as much some have and as much as I could have - and many people do this. They then post on forums - why? Because a forum is like a photography club.
Were I a member of one at the time I would have shown the members of such a club and expected both some praise and also comments as to what is wrong and how to improve the next time I go out.

People keep saying this place has lost its standards and that it is becoming full of new people who are less than brilliant - that is not bad that is good. That means we have many who are willing to learn - and yes they will be posting "snaps" and bad photography which is where the more experienced should get up and start helping them - rather than complaining that we are not getting high quality material - that is not why I am here and I doubt its what the forum is based on. If you are after art and only the best then see the homepage of a pro or a darn good amature = for forums expect to come for help and don't begrudge those who also come seeking for it

 

[kellylindseyphotography]

Ah see after re-reading what I wrote, I can see where your coming from.

Its not that I expect perfection from every post. I'm just explaining how/why I may not reply to a post. Again, I have posted bad work so trust me on how I'm not throwing stones at glass houses right now.

I'm not complaining really. Like I said, in my example, I actually helped this girl out by taking my time to PS her work and then explain what I did.

Its just that I have seen this girl critiquing other works and then what do I think of that?? I mean.. after seeing her own work, how qualified is she to critique others/???

ITs sort of a no win situation at times. So I don't know where the hell I"m going with this post.

Its great that there are beginners and its great that they have the balls to post and get feedback. I'm REALLY not complaining about that as I fall into that category myself.

The thing of it all is though- how much feedback generated here is REALLY conductive?? I don't know.

 

[Overread]

There really is not "qualification" for critique - art is art and the longer you work or look at a certain feild the better you get at looking for the "right" things - but art (and beauty) is always in the eye of the beholder. Thus anyone can comment to a good degree - once you start getting into the technical advice though things get a little more black and white - but if someone makes a comment and you know its wrong don't be afraid to say so - to leave it for others or because its the 10th time to me is not right.
Its a never ending battle in a way, but by correcting you are not only helping the original poster but the person who made the error - but remember to address the person politly (this is where some people can make mistakes) attacking them is not the way and just degenerates into a flame war - which is not what is needed. Also I would take care to draw a line between fact and opinion - fact can be write or wrong, opinion (least with art) is less black and white

 

[kellylindseyphotography]

You know what's hard? When you see a post that has 10 replys of "I like that a lot!" attaboy stuff.. and your just like.. "really?"

then your like ah, I just don't have the energy tonite to go at it with anyone.

 

[Overread]

But then things are easier - the person has already had confidance given to them by the others - all that remains is to be the nit picker and point out the flaws as you see them - granted some might think you are being over critical, but provided that you don't attack anyone elses views and a polite to the photographer whose shot you are commenting on then they have no real grounds. Some might complain and the photographer might also complain - I would not rise to such complaints any more than to say the truth == that it is your view and the you only intended to help -- ball is in thier court then to either accept or ignor - - and remember this is the internet even if they ignor there are many others who can benefit - but they can't if there is nothing said