the biggest non-technical failings of new photographers

[darin3200]

Yes, this is a sore point with me. It seems that forums are inundated with people who take 'neat' pictures or who critique pictures as 'neat' without ever making an attempt to go beyond that.

It's about levels. For some people a simple one-word comment is all they need. Moving up a level, people value input on lighting, composition, colors, etc... There are very talented people on this forum who never post things, because most of the feedback won't be of much help, it's stuff they already know.

And saying that all the people who want or give simple comments should go someplace else doesn't make sense. When I joined this forum I knew nothing, and although i was probably an annoyance at time, the more knowledgeable people who were also part of the forum helped to me learn.

Even in the time I've been here there are people who didn't have a camera when the joined, and are know very talented and motivated photographers.

Sure, there are a lot of people who aren't in the least bit concerned about getting better or progressing. But as long as there just a few who would benefit from being around more knowledgeable people it's worth it.

 

[mysteryscribe]

Well, on this forum we allow for any photos, we don't want to be exclusive, but I for my part speak my mind ... politely, with manners ... but I hope I mostly say what I think, and if I feel I can't because I lack the words or mine would be too harsh, I go away and don't say anything...

That said, a comment spoken by my father-in-law only an hour ago or so tonight springs to mind when he talked to my daughter about painting (canvasses, in oil, that sort, you know?). She is interested and likes it and wants to try out more. So she got an easel and brushes and colours for Christmas. And he said: "Don't start out trying to 'create something great'. It won't work. PLAY. Test things out. Get a feel for what 'is in your hand'. - But hey, one piece of advice: don't get stuck with flowers! That is a cul-de-sac. They are pretty, paintings of flowers can be pleasing to the eye, but they don't lead you anywhere. Try more, feel more".

(She's only 13, so "PLAY" is the right thing for her, she still has all the time of her life to learn more about the history of art and all that).

(He does not take photos at all. He paints.)

Since my views on everything else concerning this is well known. I'm going to not beat the dead animal but go right to this new one.

I LOVE painter or I HATE painters. They make photographers look like children, when it comes to ego. (so as not to offend anyone add, usually there ,since I can no longer speak in absolutes) (also add, in my opinion).

The ones I have known who can limit their arrogance to their own art are absolutely beautiful. When you listen to them you are absolutely sure they know exactly what they are doing. Even better they have a direct line to the god of balance, light and color. They are a pure joy to be around and I mean that honestly. There is not one sarcastic breath in that.

The fact that I learned my basic photography from a painter might have a heavy influence on me but I do love painters.


Next when I go to a sidewalk art show they drive me crazy. Nobody can snub a photographer like a painter. (so as not to offend anyone, add usually there, since I can no longer speak in absolutes) (also add in my opinion).

It hurts like hell to be snubbed by a painter, especially one you are very close with, but eventually you come to understand that a painter is alone with a blank canvas and a box of color. It takes a huge amount of arrogance to make the first line. No matter how much they tick me off, I have to love them.... and of course hate them... Most of all deeply respect them.

 

[The_Traveler]

And saying that all the people who want or give simple comments should go someplace else doesn't make sense.

Actually what I said was that when I come across people who want or give single word comments, I generally find another thread.

 

[LaFoto]

... I generally find another thread.

Yes, that is understood .

So what have we collected so far as the most common non-technical mistakes people make in their own photography?
Mine on the list were:

1. centred subjects and ... erm ... well, more centred subjects.

Add to the list...

(For Charlie, our mysterious Scribe: My father-in-law only started to paint at 69 years of age and he might have enough "arrogance" to put brush to canvas - thankfully he has that-, but he is also humble enough to know that today, at 83, he is still learning).

 

[craig]

Actually what I said was that when I come across people who want or give single word comments, I generally find another thread.

That's fine, but only the way that you perceive photography. Photography is very personal. I think you are narrowing your scope if you blow off certain folks.

 

[mysteryscribe]

for Lafoto:

Give him another twenty-five years (god willing).

 

[Alex_B]

1. centred subjects and ... erm ... well, more centred subjects.

Partially agreed (only) There are images which need to have the main subject centred. I agree many of mine could be better if the main subject was more off-centre, but on some it is exactly what I wanted

 

[Alex_B]

When I open up a thread and the text accompanying a picture says that the OP was just messing around, my first response is to think, "well if this is of so little importance to you that it's just 'messing around', why should I bother to treat this as anything to take up my time?" and I go somewhere else.

So what, if you think that way, then leave that thread uncommented (but don't leave the forum for that )

I can see your frustration, which apparently stems from not being able to see if a thread is worth opening, before you did open it. Maybe we should have a warning in the thread's heading saying ... these are not great photos

but I think there are threads here which might also be interesting for you, or do you consider it all crap here?

I want there to be a magic button that, when I press it, they go away somewhere, a happy place for them, where everyone posts lots of pictures and the only comments allowed are 'neat' or 'cool' or similar and the ideas of composition, focus, dof, iso don't exist.

What you need is a button to ignore all the posts which are not worthy. E.g. which removes all the rubbish I post on this forum.

BTW, that is why I myself never post in the critique section, since I think that section is reserved for images worthy of it. But non of mine is good enough to be discussed as a stand alone image. therefore i post in the galleries section as "neat" images.

[edit:] BTW, that is not me ranting now, just commenting

 

[markc]

When I consider how often I think a crop will improve the images of those starting out, I think eliminating clutter is probably the area that most new photographers could see improvement in.

 

[The_Traveler]

I can see your frustration, which apparently stems from not being able to see if a thread is worth opening, before you did open it. Maybe we should have a warning in the thread's heading saying ... these are not great photos

but I think there are threads here which might also be interesting for you, or do you consider it all crap here?

What you need is a button to ignore all the posts which are not worthy.
[edit:] BTW, that is not me ranting now, just commenting

Sorry, Alex, you have pretty much completely misunderstood what I said.

I don't base my response on the level of quality of photo that people post.

All I care about is that posters take what they do seriously enough to think about their own photography - and want to improve.

When I open threads where the indications are that OP is not serious, I don't take the picture seriously and I leave. My frustration, as expressed above, rises when the ratio of threads I leave for that reason gets high.

 

[THORHAMMER]

Scribe,

Your not alone in your respect for painting. Henry Cartier-Besson had the same sort of training before grabbing his camera. And eventually he went back to painting after he retired. I think if it wasnt for that training, he might not have had the surrealist thought in the back of his minds eye to make some of the awsome pictures that he made.

You cant tell what makes a bad shot technically without knowing what makes a good shot technically.

What constitutes a good shot technically has so many attributes attached to it. Is it commercial, is it fine art, is it editorial ? there are so many levels that the question touches.

 

[Alex_B]

All I care about is that posters take what they do seriously enough to think about their own photography - and want to improve.

OK, I got that slightly wrong, but not totally I would say

but at least from my personal experience, most threads I open, people want to get serios comments and they want to improve.

ok, some threads also just show images for entertainment, which apparently are not meant for serious critique, which is ok, even if some don't entertain me personally.

take my travel-shots, they are mainly to entertain ... although i appreciate EVERY comment regarding techical problems or composition and all... and I really like getting feedback on that... But not everyone does comment in that way, some just say "nice" or "i like it a lot" .. or "want to go there too one day" ... and all these comments are legitimate as well, and I like getting them as well.

just if someone says "it is all horrible", then I think I have the right to get some more details on that opinion, even if he or she might be right with that statement. But it needs technical or composition-wise explanation.

 

[mysteryscribe]

Here I go again...

I assume there are a few folks like me out there who wake up in the morning and say, "I'm gonna make a picture today." Not many I'm sure. Most people toss their camera in the car in case they see something to shoot.

Not me. I decide first I'm going to make a photograph this morning. Then I have to decide what media to shoot on. Today it will be paper, I think.

Then which camera I have three dedicated to paper negatives. So today i think I will shoot the one with the lens I pieced together. It is probably the sharpest lens I have. That was just a lucky accident.

What am I going to shoot. How about a classic fruit bowl.

So I go into the kitchen left over christmas shambles. Pick up a bunch of fruit both still good and almost still good.

I pass up the cut glass fruit bowl. The metal fruit bowls which my wife collects. I stand in my studio/lab trying to decide what would make a good fruit bowl, when I see the post office box. It's about the right size, but very boring.

I have a plain white square box with fruit sitting in my plain black background. Way too dull, I think. Back to raid the refrigerator.. first a can of sardines. Didn't even know they were still in the fridge. Ah a plastic wrapped and sealed block of cheese.

From the cabinet a plastic package of crackers, now off to the studio trying not to drop everything.

Set up some kind of arrangement of things, good or bad who knows. Set up the camera and the lights. Focus the camera no small feat. Load a bit of paper into a film holder. check the light reading. Make the calculations.. Make the exposure and develope the film.

Then go back and do it right.

So now I have a still life photo to work in the computer... use a hank of hair a piece of bone and its finished.

Box lunch in alternate forum is the result....

now isn't that how everyone makes a photograph just fooling around for fun. It isn't something to be taken serious. It's just the counter of the classic fine art fruit and cheese shot.