The future - Panasonic Lumix GH4 Mirror Less with 4k Video

Discussion in 'Panasonic Cameras' started by runnah, Feb 7, 2014.

  1. runnah

    runnah Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

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  2. Gavjenks

    Gavjenks TPF Noob!

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    Dunno much about trends in Nikon tech, but Canon IS on board.
    The Canon 70D in my opinion is blatant evidence of a lot of R&D money going into setting up for mirrorless mainstream cameras of the future.
    Don't let the fact that they aren't literally putting it on a mirrorless camera yet fool you. The #1 issue with mirrorless cameras is autofocus compared to DSLRs, and that's precisely what the newest tech implemented in the 70D is about.

    With a few more similar advances, such as near-light-speed LCD updates to rival the instant feedback of an optical viewfinder, and the actual switch to literal mirrorless will be nothing but a formality when they decide the time is right.
     
  3. runnah

    runnah Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

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    Agreed. I still see data transfer as the biggest hurdle for 4k. The files sizes are massive and it takes alot of brute force to handle it. Either they will come up with external recorders like the Panasonic or forgo removable storage and stick a huge SSD in the body. Either way mirrors are going to be a thing of the past very soon.
     
  4. lambertpix

    lambertpix No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    I think it's at least as thought-provoking to consider what capabilities like that imply for the industry. It seems that we're nearing a point where lines between still & video production start to break down.

    In addition to equipment, you're looking at skill sets, editing, sound, you name it -- but I think the direction is pretty irrepressible. I don't know about you guys, but I'm seeing a whole lot more outstanding video productions popping out these days in addition to the great photography work that's being turned out. There are tons of new products popping up for video productions, too -- look at all the sliders, stabilization rigs, lighting, etc., that are coming out of the woodwork. The same mass-market effect that brought DSLRs to millions of soccer moms around the world is now happening to video, too.

    Time to get your video on.
     
  5. Derrel

    Derrel Mr. Rain Cloud

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    The number one issue with mirrorless cameras is that sales of them are weak,weak,weak, all over the world, EXCEPT in the Japan home market...

    Some of the manufacturers are trying to introduce 4k video in hopes that it will create markets in which to sell huge volumes of high-profit 4k-capable televisions. But, so far, those are almost nonexistent in the real world, and we do not yet have the broadband capability/capacity to make 4k video a reality over internet distribution.

    But the huge corporations, like Panasonic, which have teeny-tiny camera and video divisions, really want to be able to prime the pump, so to speak, and hopefully, to in that way, develop a market for mass consumer electronics sales of expensive 4k TV sets. The cameras are an effort to drive sales in another area: new TV sets.

    Can anybody say "Lazer disc" or "blue ray disc" or "Zune"? It's almost impossible to "force" a disruptive product into becoming a successful sales/technology proposition when it is only one or two large corporations attempting to influence world-wide trends or demands. 3-D television for example, has been a TOTAL failure. Lazer Disc was wonderful, but died on the vine. Sony's BetaMax was technically great, but an utter sales dud versus VHS. Blue Ray never had wide support, so it has never really become a widely-adopted format for delivery. 4k video...yes, high-quality but demands a VERY expensive TV system that nobody owns....and in this day and age "good-enough" cell phone pictures and 6-second Vines and 2-minute low-fidelity iPhone and Android video clips for YouTube are what people have shown they are interested in doing.

    More and more people watch video content on mobile devices; 4k video has utterly zero place in that entire reality.

    4k video appeals to cinephiles and videographers--and to large electronics companies hoping to sell millions upon millions of ALL-NEW, $3,000 TV sets, now that the market for formerly $3,000 TV sets has been reduced to sets that have seen their retail price over the last five years drop to as low as $699. Predicting the "camera of the future" has ALWAYS, always, always been a Fool's Errand. Same with entertainment formats. Lazer disc, blue ray, VHS-C,Betamax, 3-D TV, etc.etc..
     
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  6. runnah

    runnah Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

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    I would disagree. It's being adopted like crazy in the video world. People are shooting stuff now at 4k and shrinking it down for HD. This way in a few years when 4k tvs are out there all their stuff will still look good. 4k will become the standard in the next few years. The switch to 4k broadcasting will be made much easier than with SD-HD because the digital network is already in place.

    This fool thinks mirrorless and 4k is here to stay.
     
  7. Derrel

    Derrel Mr. Rain Cloud

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    Lazer disc was supposed to become the standard. It never did. BetaMax was technically very solid, but it died. Microsoft's Zune was supposed to "take over the MP3 player world," but it died. Hi-8 video was awesome, and was supposed to take over...but it lost out to a newer format, Digital Video... BlueRay was supposed to be the next big thing...but it never got aloft fully. Blackberry had the smart phone market almost all to itself....then Apple came along and beat them to death with an iPhone.
    CD AUdio was king, then the MP3 format was invented, and once APple began selling individual songs for 99 cents on-line, CD-audio kind of died out. APS-C film was the debacle that crippled Minolta and forced them into eventual bankruptcy, and digital killed APS-C film within 5 years, and took 35mm and 120 film almost to their graves within 7 years.

    4k video may be adopted in the video world, but it will need a huge SHIFT in home television sets and a HUGE expansion of internet broadband capability in order to realize its potential. I realize it might seem great to videographers, but the public world-wide has most recently shown a reluctance to spend $3,000 per TV set in order to gain "better" home viewing experiences.

    Mirrorless might very well take off someday. But 4k video could easily be the next...Lazer Disc. Or APS-C film. Panasonic is trying to get 4k to fly as a way to enrich themselves; the problem is that unless people buy a way to "show" in 4k, it's yet another format that dies due to indifference. Maybe you're not familiar with the way disruptive technologies actually work, or fail. Technical quality is only one, tiny aspect of success.

    My point is that MILLIONS of people need to be willing to upgrade in order for 4k video to succeed. So far, people want MORE TV sets, in more rooms, and are now unwilling to pay for $3,000 TV sets. Computers were once $3,000; now? I can buy a decent PC at Fry's for $329. The trend is always toward lower-cost electronics, but Panasonic thinks they can convince people that a "better picture" is worth ALL-new everything. I think they're wrong. People want CHEAPER, not better.

    The statement that, "4k will become the standard in the next few years," is based on I guess, faith in technological superiority being the driving force behind mass-market revolutions. I understand where you're coming from, but I cannot agree with the hope you express.

    (The USA will be all-metric by 1976 as well.)
     
  8. Derrel

    Derrel Mr. Rain Cloud

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    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 11, 2014
  9. runnah

    runnah Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

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    I think what is the key point is that 4k isn't a thing rather its a standard. 4k tv prices aren't that much more compared to an HD set. With everything quickly moving to online rather than cable all you need is the bandwidth to keep up.
     
  10. JerryLove

    JerryLove No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    At the beginning of last year, 60 million homes had at least one BD player. BD sales grew 30% that quarter. I have no idea what makes you think it failed to be the next big thing.

    Most of the rest were not predictions... they were hopes of the manufacturing companies stated as fact.

    Some other things predicted to take over. CDs. MP3. Solid-state players. Solid State drives. Digital cameras. Downloadable songs.

    Except that movies use it.

    I hope so. Mirrors are useless in digital photography. The only advantage they carry (besides some potential for better power management in some circumstances) is around phase-detection focus. Canon seems to have solved that.

    Even keeping the existing focal length (which makes smaller unlikely); Canon could put out a EF-compatable camera tomorrow that would be lighter, more rugged, cheaper, faster, simpler (no need to worry about "mirror lock" or the like) and more reliable than its nearest match (simply because they could pull out the mirror, pentamirror/pentaprisim, and everything related to them).

    When will that happen? No idea. The only remaining hurdle is gone now, and it's just a matter of Canon deciding to do it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2014
  11. Ron Evers

    Ron Evers Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    After adopting the first mirror-less dSLR in 2009 (Panasonic G1) I proclaimed mirror-less was the future & I was the subject of ridicule. But hey, I have often been the only guy in the parade in step.
     
  12. vipgraphx

    vipgraphx No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    Yeah I can see where mirrorless is going to be the way. I have been very impressed with sony nex 6 and A7.

    I have even played around with the Olympus EMD wow also a great camera.
     

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