The "P word"

[Jim Benton]

But every once in a while, I come across the idea that pros using pro gear is a bad thing... something to be diminished. It's almost as if the idea is to beat down the pro to feel better about what we do and how we do it.

Probably just jealousy in the main.

 

[Bifurcator]

That too, and the intimidation feeling of those big ol powerful lenses.

Lens emasculation? Whatta weenie! (hehehe )

 

[JIP]

I really yhitnk it's a matter of wanting to dip your toes in the water instead of diving right in. Shot for quite a while with what coule be considered "amatuer" gear but when I started weddings I felt obligated to do the right thing and acquire "pro" gear. For me it was a matter of being prepared for the job I was doing (and a requirement for the guy I worked for). But really for something like a wedding I really think you have an obligation to your client to have the tools to get the job done. I know some people get by with mediocre gear but I guess it all depends on how serious you are about what you do.

 

[Chiller]

Lens emasculation? Whatta weenie! (hehehe )

Even my 500mm, looks so small to their 400mm. :lmao::lmao: Im just not as good, so I run, and hide under the nearest tree.

 

[abraxas]

From time to time, I sense some underlying emotions whenever the word PRO is used here. I'm not sure what it's all about.

I'm a working professional photographer. I'm happy to share what I know... what I've learned. That's how I got started.... hanging on the shirt-tails of working pros in my town.

And I realize too that I can learn much more as our industry evolves. I'm never surprised anymore where I pick up something new, often from the most unexpected places.

But every once in a while, I come across the idea that pros using pro gear is a bad thing... something to be diminished. It's almost as if the idea is to beat down the pro to feel better about what we do and how we do it.

Anybody else ever feel this? Maybe it's just me.

-Pete

My living is due in part to my photography. I definately do not use pro equipment for the bulk of the photography that contributes to my living either. So I can't say that I've actually experienced this condition.

However, just by reading this thread I can see examples of what you're talking about. The only thing I can think to add is that I believe the internet provokes this type of eccentric, and envious attitude and that it's the real-life interactions that matter.

 

[Chiller]

I know I will never be able to afford really good equipment, and dont plan on being a pro or doing this for a living. But I have had the chance to shoot with pros recently, at my daughters wedding. Two of the coolest people I have met. (for the money we gave them they had better be. :lmao::lmao They let me shoot with them, and even let me use their lenses on my cameras. But I can tell you, I would not want their jobs. I am quite happy being the retard (to quote a TPFer)amateur photographer I am.
oh....... During my travels, I have only encountered one dinkhead "pro", and have been asked many times by strangers...."are you a pro"?...to which I reply...."no, hobby photographer"

 

[Bifurcator]

Even my 500mm, looks so small to their 400mm. :lmao::lmao: Im just not as good, so I run, and hide under the nearest tree.

Smart! :thumbup:

The lighting is usually much better under the tree!

:smileys::smileys::smileys::smileys::smileys:

 

[pez]

And I always thought "pro" meant that you make a living with your camera equipment! Wow, I guess there are layers and layers of meaning there, lol.

I was once a professional boomerang maker...

 

[Bifurcator]

I think it's a new meaning and a sign that English is a living language. When I look it up in my 1962 O.E.D. (the dual volume 10,000+ page addition) that meaning is not included. Neither does my 1970 Oxford College Dictionary @ 1,400 pages. So I think it's a new-ish usage. Like some people became confused as to the actual meaning and started misusing it and now the "actual" meaning includes some facet of a high skill level.

And boomerangs are kewl! :thumbup:

 

[Mike_E]

I believe the term as we are discussing it is a sports idiom.

Going Pro. or being in the Pro.s is generally considered to be the highest achievement and only the supposed best get there.

That different disciplines would be blended together without regard for their unique attributes is just a sign of these slipshod times.





who, me an anachronism? :lmao:

 

[mrcrassic]

From time to time, I sense some underlying emotions whenever the word PRO is used here. I'm not sure what it's all about.

I'm a working professional photographer. I'm happy to share what I know... what I've learned. That's how I got started.... hanging on the shirt-tails of working pros in my town.

And I realize too that I can learn much more as our industry evolves. I'm never surprised anymore where I pick up something new, often from the most unexpected places.

But every once in a while, I come across the idea that pros using pro gear is a bad thing... something to be diminished. It's almost as if the idea is to beat down the pro to feel better about what we do and how we do it.

Anybody else ever feel this? Maybe it's just me.

-Pete

I think that the biggest difference between an amateur and a professional in any field like this is that the pro gets paid for his work. Because of that, I never really cared much about the differences between professionals and amateurs. It's nice to talk to people who have experience, since that's more valuable than a title.

I also think that "pro" level equipment is more marketing than engineering nowadays. I'm sure that there are legitimate reasons for people to purchase a Canon 1Ds Mark III and an EF 70-200mm f/2.8 L for getting awesome sports shots...but Canon (and others) understands that there is a slightly larger market of people that don't get it with those reasons in mind.

 

[dEARlEADER]

psssst.......(whisper) this thread has been sleeping for about a month.... shhhhh...

(quietly backs out of dark room and eases the door closed)

 

[Iron Flatline]

I think the biggest difference is that pros don't have time to get into threads like this.

 

[jstuedle]

I've been around since the beginning of history just about and never heard a "black body" be referred to as "pro body" just because it was black. It's was just called a "black body" and they charged a little extra for it. The idea was supposed to be that the camera could more easily stay out of reflections and not interfere with close-up lighting.




I remember when a silver bodied Photomic FTn was considered the "Doctors" camera, but the Black body of the same rig with a lot of brassing on all corners was considered the Pro's workhorse. I guess that dates me a little. As a matter of fact, I remember one of my fellow students of the 60's getting his new Nikon "F" body and promptly sanding all the corners with fine emery cloth. He really thought his images were better for it.

 

[JerryPH]

First, we all agree that camera gear has NOTHING to do with whether or not a photographer is a pro. A pro photographer might use anything he has on hand.

Well, just like when I go to a dentist for a cleaning, I would expect that he use equipment better than the toothbrush that I use at home, for a cleaning.

When someone says the word "pro", to me it means that there is a knowledgeable person using higher than average quality equipment to give me results better than I could ever do myself. If all it took was equipment, I could purchase that high-end tooth brush and bypass all the exorbitant fees that this "pro" is charging me. To me, it is a combination of the 2 things... equipment, and skills/experience. Experience, knowledge and results are what people should pay for... not because someone tacked on a meaningless three letter title to their shirt and struts around with something big and impressive hanging from their neck.

And second, professional gear has nothing to do with COST. Yes... it nearly always costs more, but that's not what makes it pro gear.

Yes, pro gear is pro because the optics are better, the lenses are faster, the cameras are sturdier, weather sealed, consistent, have less noise, shoot faster, and so on and so forth. There are easily visible and definable reasons why pro equipment is valuable and why it costs more.

I am seeing not a "thing" against legitimate professional photographers, but what I do see relatively often is people with little to no experience, little to no knowledge... turning pro. They go out there and are charging for services they cannot deliver and have not even begun to pay their dues to have earned the right to be called a pro. It is not so much the term "pro" as it is what negative connotations these people are pushing to the industry image of what a pro is. They have little concept of what pros should be like, much less be one themselves. This is the kind of person representing you out there in the real world. Uncle Bob with the dSLR at the wedding standing in your way, the 16-year old with an XTi for 2 weeks getting $50 for shooting a wedding. The nice lady with good equipment, but no clue where the on button is charging for child and family portraiture. All these people out there with business cards and a website, but missing the essential ingredient... skill, these are the people out there representing themselves as someone of your caliber.

This hurts the people who have dedicated the time, and have made a tremendous effort to perfect their craft so that they can deliver a superior result. The end result is a bit of sourness in the general public that you see here and there and it comes out as what you mistakenly feel as a negative feeling against pros, Pete.

In truth, it is less about having bad feelings about pros and more about some negativity the wanna-be pros are out there generating in the industry. The main reason is that the public at a glance has no way of discerning a true from a fake, or do not take the proper precautions, fall prey to the situation and now generalize that all pros suck.

That's some pretty heavy damage happening out there, and unfortunately, the ones getting hurt the most, are the ones that really put in the effort to get to where they are in the first place.