Thom Hogan: Products fighting each other: OK

[Braineack]

My brand new Sony mirrorless is convenient.

using tapatalk.

 

[Derrel]

My brand new Sony mirrorless is convenient.

Ergo,the mirroless compact camera design and form factor must become the new paradigm--for the entiiiiiiiiire camera-making industry! EVERY, single company must emulate it! (Also, you might just as well throw that full-frame Nikon you have into the junk bin. It's crap. Utter crap.)

 

[pixmedic]

My brand new Sony mirrorless is convenient.

using tapatalk.

My nikon1 is convenient

 

[Derrel]

My brand new Sony mirrorless is convenient.

using tapatalk.

My brand new Sony mirrorless is convenient.

using tapatalk.

My nikon1 is convenient

My iPhone is convenient. It even lets me play games! I can check the weather on it! I can send e-mail on it! I can browse the web on it! I can shoot motion video with it! I can make telephone calls on it! I can order pizza with the press of a fricking button using it! it has voice-activated capabilities! I can do my Facebook stuff on it! It can get my amazing Instagram stuff on-line, almost like magic! My iPhone can allow me to live-tweet anything I do!

The iPhone is the form factor Canon and Nikon MUST transition to, immediately. The iPhone is a mirrorless design, and it is therfore, by default, friggin amazeballs-good! Unless Canon and Nikon follow the iPhone's mirrorless brilliance, Canon and Nikon will be dead as camera makers within three years.

 

[f/otographer]

I'm very sorry Derrel. I had assumed I was having a discussion with a reasonable individual. I see now I was horribly wrong in that.

THE ENTIRE CAMERA-MAKING WORLD MUST GO TO MIRRORLESS NOW!!!!!

Well if you say so.

 

[f/otographer]

Also, you might just as well throw that full-frame Nikon you have into the junk bin.

Which one, the D800? Doesn't that have a Sony sensor?

 

[Derrel]

F-tographer, before I put you on ignore and raise the quality of the feed I see here on TPF, I just thought you might want to take a little course in REALITY, to help you get over your Sony delusions. So...here ya go F. Buh-bye!

Debunking The Mirrorless Hype
Debunking The Mirrorless Hype

"I put in my order for a custom flying car back in 1985, but so far…it just hasn't shown up. Everybody says flying cars will take over the market very soon."

 

[Derrel]

Thom Hogan: The Dreaded Battery Life of Mirrorless Cameras | Sans Mirror | Thom Hogan

The Dreaded Battery Life of Mirrorless Cameras

 

[f/otographer]

And now we have the fundamental difference between you and I Derrel. No matter how unpleasant a situation or adversary you don't put it on ignore and run away. But I take it as the highest compliment that in only a short time I have made a poster like you ignore me.

If you haven't yet tucked tail and run yet and are still reading this then I would like to point out that I am familiar with the article you shared. There are many good points in it, not all of them accurate but this describes any article on the web. I still don't understand this 'us or them' mentality you have concerning mirrorless. These cameras are just another tool to get the job done, no different then Holga toy cameras, DSLR's, View cameras, large format and any other device an photographer uses to create art.

So what if the people who are using them are excited about their chosen tool? The simple fact is my a7 allows me to shoot in a way and frees my creativity in a way that no Canon, Nikon, Pentax or even Sony DSLR will allow me to do. Mirrorless cameras enrich my photography in ways that DSLR's don't.

So what? Does this bother you? I mean, obviously it does. I just don't understand why.

 

[thereyougo!]

And now we have the fundamental difference between you and I Derrel. No matter how unpleasant a situation or adversary you don't put it on ignore and run away. But I take it as the highest compliment that in only a short time I have made a poster like you ignore me.

If you haven't yet tucked tail and run yet and are still reading this then I would like to point out that I am familiar with the article you shared. There are many good points in it, not all of them accurate but this describes any article on the web. I still don't understand this 'us or them' mentality you have concerning mirrorless. These cameras are just another tool to get the job done, no different then Holga toy cameras, DSLR's, View cameras, large format and any other device an photographer uses to create art.

So what if the people who are using them are excited about their chosen tool? The simple fact is my a7 allows me to shoot in a way and frees my creativity in a way that no Canon, Nikon, Pentax or even Sony DSLR will allow me to do. Mirrorless cameras enrich my photography in ways that DSLR's don't.

So what? Does this bother you? I mean, obviously it does. I just don't understand why.

I also found part of the first article useful, but have come across this a while ago.

The graphs in the article are all very well, but the points could have been made without them - why do you need graphs to show that the A7II is a similar weight and size to a base model DSLR? You can say all of that in a sentence or two. Graphs give an impression of scientific competency and I suspect that was the author's intention.

For my part as a non brand fanboy, I bought into mirrorless for size reasons. But I wasn't shooting with a D5500, I was shooting with a D800E. Comparing the A7II to a D5500 isn't IMHO a fair comparison. One is mid ranged the other base model. For me, I have one very large camera - the Pentax 645Z, and the D800E was a size not too dissimilar. I wanted a more compact set that would still have all the manual elements that I had with the D800E. So I bought the A7R. Then replaced it with the A7RII.

With my Zeiss Loxia attached my A7RII will fit into the chest pocket of my main coat. It is a large pocket, granted, but it will fit comfortably. With the zooms, it wouldn't fit. But I only need a small bag (a thinktank waist bag - what people from US call fannypacks) to carry the camera and 4 lenses. That meant I could take a full system to Norway with me as luggage was limited on that trip.

Like I say, the A7RII isn't as good as my Pentax. How does it compare to my D800E? I don't know - I haven't tested it, and test shots bore me along with graphs and MTF tables. If I wanted to do science, I would have paid attention in school. Battery life? I don't have a huge issue with it. I can get 400 shots from each battery and 2 batteries came with the camera. I can charge the camera from my laptop or from a battery pack which fits in a pocket. Sure it would be great if it would do 800 shots, but I very rarely take more than 400 with it in a day - and yes my 645Z batteries do last quite a lot longer.

If you want the best tool for action, then at the moment, mirrorless ain't it. You can do it, but battery life and EVF refresh will stand in your way of doing it easily. It's all about finding the best tool for your task. My best tool is my Pentax, but there are times when it is more practical to use the Sony. Backpack v 'fannypacnk' climbing a mountain? Depends what I think I will find there. If I get something really good will I wish I had my Pentax with me? Sure. Will the Sony get me a good result. Sure.

If you want to find fault with something, it's easy if you pick its weak point. For some the battery life on the Sony will be fatal to it being their choice of camera. For landscapers, 2 batteries and 800 shots will for the most part be two or three days shooting. Unless you are a sprayandprayer. If you consider yourself to be a decent shooter and you aren't carrying backup power for your camera, then you aren't sufficiently prepared.

 

[Tinstafl]

The bottom line is Nikon and canon sales are falling and Sony is growing. I was going to get another lens and decided to get the a6000 kit and see what the fuss was all about. I love it and have been using Nikon since 1972. I have shot for newspapers and even have a few shots in trade magazines. I am seriously thinking of getting the a7r2 and some lens and shot it along with my nikons for a bit and then let the grand kids use them. I have been looking at getting a medium format as well and then use mirrorless and MF in the studio and mirrorless outside.

 

[Braineack]

Samsung's market share was actually growing in the market...

My a6000 has a lot of benefits/features, but most of the time I'm shooting it, I wish I was just shooting the DSLR. Mainly the viewfinder and focusing and changing settings quickly.

 

[jaomul]

If all these camera types were not compared with each other on judged on there own merits it would be obvious that there are many types and many great cameras, some having strengths and weaknesses like every form of tech

 

[Braineack]

for example, every mirrorless ever does a better job at focusing in corners than a dslr.

 

[elemental]

As much as I dont like them - Apple shows how to dominate a market successfully.

Automakers once (probably) scoffed at flying cars, and they were right. But railroads once scoffed at cars, and they were wrong.

As it's happening, it's hard to say whether a new technology is one that will upend an industry or quietly fade away. But it is safe to say that firms that focus on building a better buggy whip more efficiently are in danger of entirely missing the next big move. Whether or not established camera makers are currently in this position is, of course, debatable, but it does seem to me like it's too early to draw a definitive conclusion on mirrorless. What we can see is where existing camera makers have placed their bets.