Tips for groups/oh god, what did I get myself into?!

[vintagesnaps]

Toga parties are back? alright! I'm in.

The kids outnumber the adults so I'd just go with Leonore's suggestion.


OK, seriously I've worked with kids birth to 3 so the 2 yr. old got my attention here... I'd expect the other elementary school aged kids should be able to sit where directed for a picture (well, should...lol). One thing that works sometimes is a toddler may listen/cooperate/play better w/an older child, I've had it work to have an older sib be my 'helper' and get the little one to sit by them and take turns, join in on the activity. Sometimes it can help for a little one to have a physical object as a prompt (we'd use carpet squares), depending on the age and stage they may not know what 'here' or 'there' means (too abstract), show them. I'd get everybody else situated, then the 2 yr. old, who probably won't last long for this.

Easy as running a goat rodeo.

 

[bratkinson]

Tirediron brought up one of my major concerns for group photos...DOF. F5.6 or f8 will usually provide enough DOF for a group of maybe 20 or so. That's the biggest group I've shot. I had one group shot at dusk that I had to shoot at 'barely tolerable' ISO speed to keep the DOF -and- the shutter speed at 1/100th. Fortunately, Lightroom did a surprisingly good job of taking care of the noise-and I'm a not-very-good 'hack' when it comes to noise correction.

Perhaps the biggest issue I've had with group shots is getting everyones' eyes open AND looking at you, hopefully smiling as well. I think if I had to put a 'number' to it, I shoot at least 1 frame per person in the group, just to get 1 shot with everybodys' eyes open. Then shoot about 100% more frames just to get everyones' eyes open AND looking at you AND not with a frown, or funny face, etc. OK, kids will make funny faces at the camera...sometimes those can be a keeper!

For what it's worth, I took the Christmas card shots of the pastors and their families at our church last Sunday and had to deal with an infant and toddler as well as older adults and every age in between. Rather then telling them "say cheese" to get a smile, I tried "on the count of 3, BLINK! 1-2-3'...and click a half second later. I think next time I'll wait until I count 4 to click, as I still got 1 or 2 people with closed eyes in 70% of the 40 or so shots I took of the group. I just wish my skills at Photoshop Elements were good enough to 'transplant' a smiling face to a not-so-smiling face of a 'better' shot of the group.

Fortunately, one of our pastors wanted to see my results after I fired off each 10 shots (or so) of the group. He noticed that one of the wives was partially hidden in those shots. I never 'saw it' before I took the pictures. At least I moved Christmas trees and other decorations to obscure outlets and the fire alarm on the wall behind them BEFORE I started taking the pictures. That's a major improvement from last year when I had a decorated tree limb apparently 'growing' out of the same womans' head last year! I'm learning to look at the background BEFORE I shoot! That's a lesson learned 'the hard way'!

 

[Designer]

I need some tips/resources for shooting groups.

Do you have a cable release? Or RF wireless release? Mount your camera on your tripod, and block out the FOV on the floor or ground. Make some preliminary measurements for DOF calculations, and mark the ideal focal distance on the ground as well. (tape or string, for instance) Place your softbox to one side of your camera, and perhaps a reflector on the opposite side.

Line up your group, closely matching the DOF marker. Don't be afraid to walk over and give very explicit directions as to which way to turn, etc. Don't be bashful about rearranging the individuals to produce a pleasing composition.

Get behind the camera so they have someone to look at, and stay close to the lens so everyone's eyes will be looking at the lens. You're going to be dancing around behind the camera waving your arms, pointing, gesturing, smiling, giving more verbal commands, and snapping away. Concentrate on watching the children's eyes, because most adults will try to keep their gaze directed at the lens.

Keep snapping until it looks as if the group is tired of it all, and don't chimp your shots because you won't have time to do that and still get the best shots.

Be sure to thank everyone when the session is over.

Break out the hip flask and breathe again.

 

[pgriz]

Perhaps this is just a crazy thought, and if so, just ignore it. The thought is this: if you tether a laptop to your camera, while following Designer's suggestions above, and show the group what they look like, wouldn't that improve the possibility of people behaving better given that they are getting a "mirror" of themselves? I've never tried it myself, but having thought of it, it may be something I'll try over the holidays. Might be an utter disaster, or it might be inspired genius (or, more likely, something in-between).

 

[Designer]

That tethering idea is interesting, but my experience with my own family leads me to then they won't necessarily behave any better.

I think they would all walk closer to see better. (First shot, group walks to the laptop, photog asks everyone to return to their places, photog re-arranges group, second shot, everyone walks up to the laptop to see better, photog asks group to return to the posing area, and so on.)

BTW: we once arranged for a family session wherein we asked for everyone to wear a white shirt and blue jeans. So naturally everyone did except my daughter-in-law. There's always one.

 

[JustJazzie]

I will have more questions once we decide on indoor vs outdoor, but Its looking like studio (yay for me!) due to snow.

Any advice on which lens would work best for groups? Ive got the 50mm and the 28-105 on FF. or will that have to be chosen when I see how much space is in her house? And for indoor group shots, I just want "even" lighting so no one is in anthers shadow correct? What about outside? Will my speed light be strong enough for a group of 8? or worthless to bring along?

The hip-flask is the best advice of all, but in addition to that, remember to mention clothing choices; you don't want Dad in blue-jeans and a wife-beater, Mom in a black top with white slacks and the children in neon! Shoot wide so you can crop easily to various sizes, make sure your DoF is sufficient to get everyone in focus, and watch your backgrounds. This stuff is easy, it really is (and Paul's tip about enrolling the MiL as a cat-herder is also top-notch!).

Check!

Toga parties are back? alright! I'm in.

The kids outnumber the adults so I'd just go with Leonore's suggestion.


OK, seriously I've worked with kids birth to 3 so the 2 yr. old got my attention here... I'd expect the other elementary school aged kids should be able to sit where directed for a picture (well, should...lol). One thing that works sometimes is a toddler may listen/cooperate/play better w/an older child, I've had it work to have an older sib be my 'helper' and get the little one to sit by them and take turns, join in on the activity. Sometimes it can help for a little one to have a physical object as a prompt (we'd use carpet squares), depending on the age and stage they may not know what 'here' or 'there' means (too abstract), show them. I'd get everybody else situated, then the 2 yr. old, who probably won't last long for this.

Easy as running a goat rodeo.

Sorry if my original post was unclear. There will be 5 adults, 3 kids. As far as I think, they are pretty well behaved.

Tirediron brought up one of my major concerns for group photos...DOF. F5.6 or f8 will usually provide enough DOF for a group of maybe 20 or so. That's the biggest group I've shot. I had one group shot at dusk that I had to shoot at 'barely tolerable' ISO speed to keep the DOF -and- the shutter speed at 1/100th. Fortunately, Lightroom did a surprisingly good job of taking care of the noise-and I'm a not-very-good 'hack' when it comes to noise correction.

Perhaps the biggest issue I've had with group shots is getting everyones' eyes open AND looking at you, hopefully smiling as well. I think if I had to put a 'number' to it, I shoot at least 1 frame per person in the group, just to get 1 shot with everybodys' eyes open. Then shoot about 100% more frames just to get everyones' eyes open AND looking at you AND not with a frown, or funny face, etc. OK, kids will make funny faces at the camera...sometimes those can be a keeper!

For what it's worth, I took the Christmas card shots of the pastors and their families at our church last Sunday and had to deal with an infant and toddler as well as older adults and every age in between. Rather then telling them "say cheese" to get a smile, I tried "on the count of 3, BLINK! 1-2-3'...and click a half second later. I think next time I'll wait until I count 4 to click, as I still got 1 or 2 people with closed eyes in 70% of the 40 or so shots I took of the group. I just wish my skills at Photoshop Elements were good enough to 'transplant' a smiling face to a not-so-smiling face of a 'better' shot of the group.

Fortunately, one of our pastors wanted to see my results after I fired off each 10 shots (or so) of the group. He noticed that one of the wives was partially hidden in those shots. I never 'saw it' before I took the pictures. At least I moved Christmas trees and other decorations to obscure outlets and the fire alarm on the wall behind them BEFORE I started taking the pictures. That's a major improvement from last year when I had a decorated tree limb apparently 'growing' out of the same womans' head last year! I'm learning to look at the background BEFORE I shoot! That's a lesson learned 'the hard way'!

Thanks for the tips! I will read it 3 or 4 times to help remember!

I need some tips/resources for shooting groups.

Do you have a cable release? Or RF wireless release? Mount your camera on your tripod, and block out the FOV on the floor or ground. Make some preliminary measurements for DOF calculations, and mark the ideal focal distance on the ground as well. (tape or string, for instance) Place your softbox to one side of your camera, and perhaps a reflector on the opposite side.

Line up your group, closely matching the DOF marker. Don't be afraid to walk over and give very explicit directions as to which way to turn, etc. Don't be bashful about rearranging the individuals to produce a pleasing composition.

Get behind the camera so they have someone to look at, and stay close to the lens so everyone's eyes will be looking at the lens. You're going to be dancing around behind the camera waving your arms, pointing, gesturing, smiling, giving more verbal commands, and snapping away. Concentrate on watching the children's eyes, because most adults will try to keep their gaze directed at the lens.

Keep snapping until it looks as if the group is tired of it all, and don't chimp your shots because you won't have time to do that and still get the best shots.

Be sure to thank everyone when the session is over.

Break out the hip flask and breathe again.

No cable release here, at least not for the camera I am using. No chimping! (Deep breath) okay. No chimping.

Perhaps this is just a crazy thought, and if so, just ignore it. The thought is this: if you tether a laptop to your camera, while following Designer's suggestions above, and show the group what they look like, wouldn't that improve the possibility of people behaving better given that they are getting a "mirror" of themselves? I've never tried it myself, but having thought of it, it may be something I'll try over the holidays. Might be an utter disaster, or it might be inspired genius (or, more likely, something in-between).

Not crazy, but I dont have a laptop new enough to thither to, so it won't work for me!

 

[Braineack]

And for indoor group shots, I just want "even" lighting so no one is in anthers shadow correct? What about outside? Will my speed light be strong enough for a group of 8? or worthless to bring along?

I would use an off camera flash for key, and the on camera flash for fill.

here:
The Spauldings with Flat Stanley | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

this was a umbrella camera right and a 16x16 softbox camera axis. Very spur of the moment.

 

[iolair]

Do you have any off-camera lights? Depending on the lighting (if indoors), bouncing a couple of flashes off the ceiling could help with the exposure somewhat.

 

[JustJazzie]

I've got two studio strobes. One huge (as tall as me) softbox, I can diffuse the second with a shower curtain on a boom .

Bouncind won't work. They live in a home with very tall wood celings. (I believe that is where we will be shooting)

 

[Designer]

Can you obtain a cable release before the session? Holding a button in your hand you can still watch everyone's eyes and facial expression and press the button when everything looks good.

 

[JustJazzie]

Can you obtain a cable release before the session? Holding a button in your hand you can still watch everyone's eyes and facial expression and press the button when everything looks good.

I don't think so. We're pretty tapped out for the season, and since I'm not getting paid for the shoot, I just can't justify it. Can I not do the same thing standing by the camera without my eye to the viewfinder??

 

[vintagesnaps]

Good then if there will be more grown ups than kids to wrangle! But last night's silliness aside, from the questions it sounds like it would be a good idea to do some practice shots so you know what to do. Even if you just end up with a nice picture of your couch at least it would enable you set up the equipment you have and figure out what would work best for you.

I've done family holiday photos with existing room light, I've sometimes moved lamps or angled lampshades to get more light, I've a couple of times gotten photos with candle light. Bit I'm used to doing sports and events and working with the existing light and conditions. To me a holiday family photo doesn't necessarily have to be a portrait session, for that it's probably for better someone to hire a photographer.

Even if you don't know what their house is like I'd still do some practice shots at home so you have a pretty good idea what to do when you get there.

 

[pgriz]

Can you obtain a cable release before the session? Holding a button in your hand you can still watch everyone's eyes and facial expression and press the button when everything looks good.

I don't think so. We're pretty tapped out for the season, and since I'm not getting paid for the shoot, I just can't justify it. Can I not do the same thing standing by the camera without my eye to the viewfinder??

Jazzie, you sure? They're not so expensive... Canon Wireless Remote Controller RC-6 | Canon Online Store. And that's if you buy the name brand. The wired third party ones are as little as $3.

 

[Designer]

Can I not do the same thing standing by the camera without my eye to the viewfinder??

You can, but it would be easier with the cable, which I consider as being the main advantage.

 

[JustJazzie]

I'll look into it, thanks!