To my fellow Americans

[Josh66]

I'm not saying national security is not important nor am I being anti-American and my patriotism shall not be called into question (again another card played way too often)

I know what you mean. It pisses me off that it is now "un-american" to question authority. Anyone who does could be labeled a terrorist and locked up indefinitely. (Habeas Corpus? What's that?)

I saw a bumper sticker once... "Loving your country and loving your government are not the same thing", or something to that effect.

I would say more, but I better not...

 

[Phranquey]

Does anyone really think things would be drastically different had McCain won? I see very little difference between the two. I think Obama is a better orator, and that was probably a factor in his winning.

Ahh, there are so many things I want to say - but can't. I don't want to get myself banned.

I hear ya....I'll just offer up this little read:


While walking down the street one day a US senator is tragically hit by a truck and dies.

His soul arrives in heaven and is met by St. Peter at the entrance.

'Welcome to heaven,' says St. Peter. 'Before you settle in, it seems there is a problem. We seldom see a high official around these parts, you see, so we're not sure what to do with you.'

'No problem, just let me in,' says the man.

'Well, I'd like to, but I have orders from higher up. What we will do is have you spend one day in hell and one in heaven. Then you can choose where to spend eternity.'

'Really, I've made up my mind. I want to be in heaven,' says the senator.

'I'm sorry, but we have our rules.'

And with that, St. Peter escorts him to the elevator and he goes down, down, down to hell. The doors open and he finds himself in the middle of a green golf course. In the distance is a clubhouse and standing in front of it are all his friends and other politicians who had worked with him.

Everyone is very happy and in evening dress. They run to greet him, shake his hand, and reminisce about the good times they had while getting rich at the expense of the people.

They play a friendly game of golf and then dine on lobster, caviar and champagne.

Also present is the devil, who really is a very friendly guy who has a good time dancing and telling jokes. They are having such a good time that before he realizes it, it is time to go.

Everyone gives him a hearty farewell and waves while the elevator rises...

The elevator goes up, up, up and the door reopens on heaven where St. Peter is waiting for him.

'Now it's time to visit heaven.'

So, 24 hours pass with the senator joining a group of contented souls moving from cloud to cloud, playing the harp and singing. They have a good time and, before he realizes it, the 24 hours have gone by and St. Peter returns.

'Well, then, you've spent a day in hell and another in heaven. Now choose your eternity.'

The senator reflects for a minute, then he answers: 'Well, I would never have said it before, I mean heaven has been delightful, but I think I would be better off in hell.'

So St. Peter escorts him to the elevator and he goes down, down, down to hell.

Now the doors of the elevator open and he has in the middle of a barren land covered with waste and garbage.

He sees all his friends, dressed in rags, picking up the trash and putting it in black bags as more trash falls from above.

The devil comes over to him and puts his arm around his shoulder. 'I don't understand,' stammers the senator. 'Yesterday I was here and there was a golf course and clubhouse, and we ate lobster and caviar, drank champagne, and danced and had a great time. Now there is just a wasteland full of garbage and my friends look miserable. What happened?'

The devil looks at him, smiles and says, 'Yesterday we were campaigning...

Today you voted.'

 

[mrodgers]

Judging from what I saw with impromptu street interviews of every day people, I think the results come down to 3 things with the record voter turnout....

- "Race is no longer an issue in America" as I've been hearing non stop since the election. Yet, constantly I've seen in the media, why are you voting for Obama? A - Because he will be our first black president.


- Race falls into this one as well. I think because of the candidate, a certain minority of the US voted that wouldn't have voted otherwise.

- Change. Folks on the street, when asked why they are voting for Obama, they say because of change. When asked what change, they can't answer. Change has been the buzz word the entire time through this election, but as buzz words normally go, no one could state the change that will come about. Only that there will be change.

 

[usayit]

Does anyone really think things would be drastically different had McCain won?

Without going into a mini-debate over each issue, I see obvious differences regarding the policies each candidate presented during the debates (Iraq, Taxation, Healthcare being the more obvious topics). We all can agree to disagree.

What I see was the turning points in McCain's actual campaign (not policies):

*) He didn't distance himself enough from the 8 years of Bush policies. The appearance of lack of "more of the same".
*) Just before the beginning of the financial meltdown, he was on record as stating that the economy was strong. This is despite what almost every American was observing and sounded similar to what Bush stated prior. The appearance of being disconnected.
*) When the financial crisis peaked its ugly head into the media, McCain suddenly announced the suspension of his campaign to head to Washington. The appearance of being brash and abrupt. The public was looking for a cool level headed individual to take on 2 war fronts, financial crisis, and other major issues facing Americans.
*) His campaign was full of small actions rather than a single culminating strategy.
*) I don't believe members of either party were convinced of his choice for VP who is likely than past VPs to become president because of McCain's age. You cannot criticize Obama's inexperience without bringing to attention Gov. Palin's inexperience.
*) Leaks of negative events within his campaign; a bit of strain between Gov. Palin and members of his campaign organization.

These are all oversights made during the campaign season that overshadowed a very capable individual. Obama's campaign simply was more organized and better executed. In the end, both are extra-ordinary men.... regardless who ultimately won your vote.

 

[monkeykoder]

I know what you mean. It pisses me off that it is now "un-american" to question authority. Anyone who does could be labeled a terrorist and locked up indefinitely. (Habeas Corpus? What's that?)

I saw a bumper sticker once... "Loving your country and loving your government are not the same thing", or something to that effect.

I would say more, but I better not...

Sounds a lot like "I love my country it is the government I'm afraid of" Just quoting a bumper sticker.

 

[Hawaii Five-O]

I noticed is that every single broadcast that I watched in utter disappointment turned this into a racial thing.

Haha my sister said the same thing! The one question I was wondering is what peoples' actual confidence level is in B.O. As the news said they interviewed some people a few months ago, and those people said they would not vote obama. But then at election time those same people said they would vote obama. All I know is I too don't like how superficial they are making this election, like the skin color is the salvation & healing of the nation or something. I have nothing against black people... but its like come on.

I think its ironic how they say the nation made a step forward electing a black man, but yet the Southern states where racism was the greatest in past decades gave McCain the electoral vote. All of them

 

[Helen B]

I think its ironic how they say the nation made a step forward electing a black man, but yet the Southern states where racism was the greatest in past decades gave McCain the electoral vote. All of them

Isn't that because they tend to be strongly Republican? The great step forward is that being black did not prevent Obama from being elected, not that he was elected because he was black. Countrywide there was a general swing towards Democratic candidates, not all of whom were black. That may suggest that many people voted for Obama because of his politics, not because he is black.

Best,
Helen

 

[usayit]

I agree with Helen. Of course there IS racism.. EVERYWHERE. I saw/experienced it in growing up in the South and I still see it (to a lesser extent) in the North East. I don't believe that racism was the major factor in the "red" states of the south. I know at least a specific few southern states have historically been distrusting of BIG government. McCain's push to link Obama to "Socialism" was probably a factor as well as their conservative leanings.

Perhaps the content of the commercials where I live is different but I saw many trying to link Obama to terrorists, socialists, over bearing liberalism, as well as "wealth spreading"... more so than his race. Again.. it could be that New Jersey (usually Democratic) wasn't being subjected to those racial type of programing.

 

[Dmitri]

ah well... the thread was going along fine until one side decided that being mature and adult was too much to handle. Guess some people feel they are so important that everyone needs to know their political opinions, even while most are being polite and leaving their personal politics out of it.

Grow up and get over it. I think, sadly, it's time for a lock on this thread.

 

[Big Bully]

- Change. Folks on the street, when asked why they are voting for Obama, they say because of change. When asked what change, they can't answer. Change has been the buzz word the entire time through this election, but as buzz words normally go, no one could state the change that will come about. Only that there will be change.

Exactly! We have heard all about his history, the fact that he "might" have been born in Kenya. How his wife used to write the seriously radical papers for college. But all anyone really knows about his policies is that he is going to bring about change. But if you ask anyone, (like you said) no one can tell you what the change will be, not all change, is good change.:er:

I think its ironic how they say the nation made a step forward electing a black man, but yet the Southern states where racism was the greatest in past decades gave McCain the electoral vote. All of them

You had to know that was going to happen though. Everywhere has their own racism card and they are still pretty strong down there. Whites vs Blacks and visa versa. In the south the racism card isn't one sided.

ah well... the thread was going along fine until one side decided that being mature and adult was too much to handle. Guess some people feel they are so important that everyone needs to know their political opinions, even while most are being polite and leaving their personal politics out of it.

Grow up and get over it. I think, sadly, it's time for a lock on this thread.

I don't think that we are getting heated in our discussion. I think that the people in this thread are actually handling the issues very well.

 

[terri]

It has actually gone extremely well, given the strong voter response nationwide and the emotional component tied therein.

Given that we have a pretty iron-clad "no politics" rule here, I am going to close the thread. We just wanted people to be able to vent a little before and after the election, but in good conscience I can't leave it open indefinitely. Every time I open TPF I'm bracing myself for a meltdown in here.

Please let me remind everybody that as subscribers, there is access to a hidden forum where these kinds of discussions are permitted. If you really want to continue this discussion, that is the place for it. :thumbup:

Thanks to all of you for showing the proper restraint in this open forum on such a hot topic. It is greatly appreciated!