Transit Centers and Photography

[DaemonLee]

Okay, legalese question of the day and I'm just looking for general input.

I take the bus everyday, and you either see fights or something interesting or a pretty piece of artwork at a Transit Center.

Now, Securitas (owns most of the contract work for Transit Centers), will tell you that it's illegal for you to take a photo because of 9/11.

I don't really want to call them out on it and call them Rudy Giulani, but I'm curious.


Input?

 

[MarcusM]

Seems like a pretty ridiculous claim from someone who doesn't know what they're talking about. Unless somehow that's their policy that they're able to enforce on the lines, but I doubt it. There have been several threads on very similar subject matter recently, here's one:

http://thephotoforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=115881&highlight=photographer%27s+rights

 

[Socrates]

Okay, legalese question of the day and I'm just looking for general input.

I take the bus everyday, and you either see fights or something interesting or a pretty piece of artwork at a Transit Center.

Now, Securitas (owns most of the contract work for Transit Centers), will tell you that it's illegal for you to take a photo because of 9/11.

I don't really want to call them out on it and call them Rudy Giulani, but I'm curious.


Input?

I'm NOT a lawyer but I believe that you don't have a leg to stand on. The problem is that it's not really "public" property (despite the fact that your taxes probably paid for it). To illustrate my point, forget photography for a moment and consider your local public school (also paid for by your taxes). You don't even have the right to enter that school without permission! Also forget 9-11. I can attest to that policy going back fifty years.

If I were you, I'd find out who has the authority to grant permission and obtain same from that individual.

 

[MarcusM]

You don't even have the right to enter that school without permission!

err, school? Is there something I'm missing?

 

[mrodgers]

err, school? Is there something I'm missing?

What are you missing? With all the fear of pedophiles and kidnappings, you are not allowed in a public school unless you have a child in school and you are there for a reason. All doors are locked at my daughter's school, and you have to buzz the office from within the small lobby type entrance to enter the school.

It's quite simple, it's security. I suppose the photography community doesn't have a problem with just anyone being able to enter a school without being seen or known where my child is just as it seems to be ok with taking photos of my child and putting them up on the internet or anywhere else that I would not want them to be.

 

[Socrates]

err, school? Is there something I'm missing?

I don't know. What do you think you're missing?

 

[MarcusM]

What are you missing? With all the fear of pedophiles and kidnappings, you are not allowed in a public school unless you have a child in school and you are there for a reason. All doors are locked at my daughter's school, and you have to buzz the office from within the small lobby type entrance to enter the school.

It's quite simple, it's security. I suppose the photography community doesn't have a problem with just anyone being able to enter a school without being seen or known where my child is just as it seems to be ok with taking photos of my child and putting them up on the internet or anywhere else that I would not want them to be.

I don't know. What do you think you're missing?

LOL, ok, both of you go back and read his post. Then point out where he is at all talking about school. If you can find it, then I guess that's what I was missing. Because I can't find it.

 

[Socrates]

What are you missing? With all the fear of pedophiles and kidnappings, you are not allowed in a public school unless you have a child in school and you are there for a reason. All doors are locked at my daughter's school, and you have to buzz the office from within the small lobby type entrance to enter the school.

It's quite simple, it's security. I suppose the photography community doesn't have a problem with just anyone being able to enter a school without being seen or known where my child is just as it seems to be ok with taking photos of my child and putting them up on the internet or anywhere else that I would not want them to be.

Before anyone claims that you're paranoid...
http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/10/03/america/web.1003slay.php

 

[Socrates]

LOL, ok, both of you go back and read his post. Then point out where he is at all talking about school. If you can find it, then I guess that's what I was missing. Because I can't find it.

Please go back and read my post. I never claimed he was talking about a school. I used a school as an example of another facility paid for with taxes. I gave that example to illustrate a point, a point that you obviously missed.

 

[MarcusM]

Please go back and read my post. I never claimed he was talking about a school. I used a school as an example of another facility paid for with taxes. I gave that example to illustrate a point, a point that you obviously missed.

Ok, you're right, you were using school as an example, I read your post too fast and missed that.

However, I still don't see any similarity between taking photographs on a bus which is open to ALL public and trying to gain access into a school which, yes, is technically public property, but that doesn't mean it is open to all public - I agree with both of your points about security at a school for the reasons stated, but I just don't see the correlation between trying to take photographs on a public bus and attempting to enter a public school.

 

[Socrates]

Ok, you're right, you were using school as an example, I read your post too fast and missed that.

However, I still don't see any similarity between taking photographs on a bus which is open to ALL public and trying to gain access into a school which, yes, is technically public property, but that doesn't mean it is open to all public - I agree with both of your points about security at a school for the reasons stated, but I just don't see the correlation between trying to take photographs on a bus and attempting to enter a public school.

The "owner" of the "public property" has the authority to determine how it will be used. Just as the school board has determined to prevent certain individuals from entering, this particular transit system has determined that photographs are not permitted. You can let your mind wander and think of many other things that are entirely legal and reasonable on a public street but are probably forbidden on property owned by the transit authority. Probably smoking and spitting, for example, and possibly selling porn and using roller skates. It doesn't matter if you believe that a specific restriction is unreasonable. It matters only that the managing authority has established the restriction.

 

[Mystwalker]

There was another thread which claim it was all legal, blah blah blah ...

I think question to you is ... is that picture worth the hassle of dealing with security every time? I seriously doubt they are going to change their tune because "you said so". Chances are you have to work up to their bosses boss to make final decision.

Or may be easier for you to just approach the managers at station and ask for permission.

Other train of thought is that "tis sometime to ask for forgiveness then for permission". Security may not see you and if you are legally in the right, you should get away with it - just a hassle.

 

[DaemonLee]

I'm NOT a lawyer but I believe that you don't have a leg to stand on. The problem is that it's not really "public" property (despite the fact that your taxes probably paid for it). To illustrate my point, forget photography for a moment and consider your local public school (also paid for by your taxes). You don't even have the right to enter that school without permission! Also forget 9-11. I can attest to that policy going back fifty years.

If I were you, I'd find out who has the authority to grant permission and obtain same from that individual.

I've emailed Sound Transit, to see what they state and they'd have to determine if I'm crazy or not.

 

[ksm]

Please post their response. Just ccurious what they are going to say.

 

[THORHAMMER]

I had to call the train stations here a bunch of time to get it all cleared up too.
trains and the stations are totally ok, they might ask you some questions but they cant stop you as long as your not using a tripod and not blocking people.

I think in washington you have to go through the media relations people, tell them your an artist and its not professional , you should have no problems. They might never call you back, just call the police station and ask them cause they are the ones that will get called anyways. If you have their blessing then you can tell the security @ the station to go away and leave you alone.

Next time a guard makes up a law on the spot im going to call the cops on HIM. since hes lying to me about the law, hes obviously suspicious, maybe a terrorist. watch them give HIM a background check. seriously, if you complain, they HAVE to check it out and question them or its their ass.

But in your case I am not sure where the law sides in Washington. Good luck, let us know.