Trespassing and Police

skates94 · Dec 29, 2006

flyinsalt... you hit the nail on the head. I have lost count of the number of people I have stopped with confirmed links to terrorism. It's frightening to learn much of the information that we are privy to. Sadly, I will never leave my home w/o my firearm. Some idiot terrorist in Rockford, Illinois was about to blow up a shopping mall the Friday before Christmas:

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/166248,CST-NWS-terror09.article

People.... this stuff is happening right under your noses! We are not safe anywhere.

castrol · Jan 19, 2007

The terrorists have already won. They hate us with such a passion they will
do anything and everything to kill every last one of us and if they can't do that,
they will make us slaves to a country that won't allow any freedoms of any
types. Rest assured, there was a HUGE victory on 9/11.

That being said, many, MANY people have photographic memories. At what
point do we quit allowing people to actually look at a building for fear they
might figure out some way to blow it up? It's getting out of control. "Excuse
me sir, you have to come with me?" B..but...why? "Well, you looked up from
the sidewalk at the building while you were walking by. That constitutes
a thread of possible terrorism. Please come with me."

It amazes me how ones hobby can sway you back and forth from the right
to the left and back again. Seems all the hobbies I like are hated by one
side or the other.

theusher · Jan 19, 2007

castrol said:
The terrorists have already won. They hate us with such a passion they will
do anything and everything to kill every last one of us and if they can't do that,
they will make us slaves to a country that won't allow any freedoms of any
types. Rest assured, there was a HUGE victory on 9/11.

That being said, many, MANY people have photographic memories. At what
point do we quit allowing people to actually look at a building for fear they
might figure out some way to blow it up? It's getting out of control. "Excuse
me sir, you have to come with me?" B..but...why? "Well, you looked up from
the sidewalk at the building while you were walking by. That constitutes
a thread of possible terrorism. Please come with me."

It amazes me how ones hobby can sway you back and forth from the right
to the left and back again. Seems all the hobbies I like are hated by one
side or the other.

I don't want to turn this into a political thread, but your post is spot on. The terrorists did win by destroying the fabric and landscape that made the country great to begin with. 9/11 was the beginning of the end of freedoms enjoyed in this country for decades.

montresor · Jan 20, 2007

Very sad indeed. I've never been stopped, interfered with or arrested, even though I've photographed in some rather unusual urban settings, including the maze of alleyways in downtown Cleveland between the old and new edifices (got some lovely stuff back there too!). I once shot pictures of bridges and light rail transport with police standing nearby, fully cognizant of what I was doing. That said, Cleveland police are pretty good about assessing many risks, and as a lightweight little guy with glasses whose camera bag threatens to topple him over, I apparently looked harmless to them. Which, of course, I was.

Nevertheless, I will admit that many's the time I've elected not to take a photo, simply because of these Orwellian concerns.

ADELICATEIMAGE · Apr 5, 2007

This Link Was Great :hail:

Soocom1 said:
A little while back I had posted on another forum points similar to those made here. I was hit so hard by those who had already experianced this, that I eventually had to go to this web site: http://www.krages.com/phoright.htm

You will get a wealth of information from it, and a downloadable guide to what you can and cannot do.

Also there is a book to read:

The Law (in plane english) for Photographers.
by: Leonard D. Duboff

Allworth Press; Revised edition (May 2002)
ISBN: 1581152256

dewey · Apr 5, 2007

I always cooporate with law enforcement... If I am on public property I laugh and provoke security guards for fun. :lol:

I will however not produce an ID just for standing somewhere... it's just not required by law in the good ole US (that may be in the patriot act somewhere). Will I go to jail for it? Of course not, but it's never been a problem... of course I would have my DL hanging around my neck in NYC.

A good example would be a few days ago. I was pulled off to the side of the road photographing an oil refinery. OOoooooooo no not an oil refinery! The little refinery security guard caught up to me at my third setup and asked for my ID. I asked who he was, and he explained he was a security guard. I explained to him that I was on public property and was taking photographs for peaceful purposes. I also explained he had no right to see my ID, to which he replied he was calling the police, which he did. After a few more scenery changes around the refinery the police arrived and asked me what I was doing. I explained I was taking photos, and explained I had never strayed from public property, and I explained I had researched the issue with the Edmonton Police Service AND the RCMP and they both said it was okay to photograph refineries. I gave him the officer name and ID from both agencies I spoke to, to which he said he knew it wasn't illegal to photograph them, but that he was called out because I was tresspassing. His next question with a bit of a laugh was "do you plan on tresspassing tonight?" Of course I said no. With a look of "why did I come out here" the cop then had a LOUD talk with the security guard and they both left.

Score one for photographers! :thumbup:

As far as railroads, yeah get a long lens and stay away from the right of way.

ADELICATEIMAGE · Apr 5, 2007

skates,

I had a run-in a few nights ago. My wife and I were going out for dinner at nine o'clock. It's I noticed three police cruisers flying down the road. They pulled up to building next to my apartment building. Turns out in elderly Man dailed 911 because he couldn't get his car started. Two of the three cops were under the hood. I had to take a few photographs. After the third photograph I used one with a flash. One of the officers yelled "don't you have anything better to do". I replied "no not really". I noiced the flashlight having my direction. I told my wife to get quick. a few seconds later the large was coming my direction. It's I pulled out, and proceeded down the street. The way the side streets are we could've had hidden. But I really wanted dinner. Five seconds later a cruiser came up behind us. Followed us for a bout a mile. As I was watching in the rearview mirror I knew that gut wrenching sign was that happen, the police lights came on. A female officer approached the car. She asked for license to registration and insurance. I asked her , what did I do officer. She repeated her demand. i repeat my question. This she told me was part of her investigation. When she came back to the vehicle, he do you could not photograph police cruisers or police officers without written consent in the future. After she walked away, i was laugnhing my head off. How would you have handle that situation as a police officer?

skates94 said:
DeepSpring

I wish everything was black and white but we all know there is alot of gray area in the middle. For the most part you should be able to stand on "public" property and take photos of whatever makes your heart content BUT you may encounter some resistance. For example if you were to travel to Downtown Chicago and photograph the Sears Towers (tallest building in North America) you would probably be questioned as to why you are doing so and what your purpose with the photos is.

As someone stated earlier:
Carry a valid government issued id card w/you
Carry some of your work
Be polite and direct, if photography is your hobby and you enjoy taking pictures of pigeons on park benches.. then say so

If directed to move along...... I would suggest you do so. Even if your right. Many times a police officer may ask someone to do something and when that person does not do it they often find themselves being charged w/something..... disorderly conduct is usually the catch all.

Hope this helps

Garrentee · Apr 10, 2007

I wanted to shoot an abandoned amusment park in my girlfriends home town...there are fences and no truspassing signs everywhere...i didnt want to get in trouble for going in there so i just went down to local police dept. and told them i was doing a photo documentary on old amusment parks in new england...cops were very nice, strolled back to ask his supervisor and came back with the answer of yes!! but be carefull and if you get hurt its on you!!

Even though i lied about the documentary it never hurts to ask!!! they might just say YES...

ADELICATEIMAGE · Apr 10, 2007

Garrentee said:
I wanted to shoot an abandoned amusment park in my girlfriends home town...there are fences and no truspassing signs everywhere...i didnt want to get in trouble for going in there so i just went down to local police dept. and told them i was doing a photo documentary on old amusment parks in new england...cops were very nice, strolled back to ask his supervisor and came back with the answer of yes!! but be carefull and if you get hurt its on you!!

Even though i lied about the documentary it never hurts to ask!!! they might just say YES...

lol would that be rockey point?

Garrentee · Apr 10, 2007

lol, no adelicateimage it actually used to be called lincoln park, in westport, MA...theres a rickety old wooden roller coaster thats falling apart and its an awesome spot!!

ADELICATEIMAGE · Apr 11, 2007

cool , not enough parks now anywhere.

EOS_JD · Apr 11, 2007

Hertz van Rental said:
In the UK there is no actual law against trespass.
All that can be done is to ask you to leave and you do so by the quickest route.
You can, however, be prosecuted for criminal damage in connection - if you have caused any. So you cannot force an entry. You can only trespass with impunity if you gain access through an existing entrance.
There is one exception, though, and that is the railways. Trespassing on a railway track - whether there is a train coming or no - has a special law covering it as it is seen as a potential threat to life.

Not quite true Hertz - there is a law against tresspass (not the same in Scotland though). Read this

http://www.sirimo.co.uk/media/UKPhotographersRights.pdf

RMThompson · Apr 11, 2007

skates94 said:
DeepSpring

I wish everything was black and white but we all know there is alot of gray area in the middle. For the most part you should be able to stand on "public" property and take photos of whatever makes your heart content BUT you may encounter some resistance. For example if you were to travel to Downtown Chicago and photograph the Sears Towers (tallest building in North America) you would probably be questioned as to why you are doing so and what your purpose with the photos is.

As someone stated earlier:
Carry a valid government issued id card w/you
Carry some of your work
Be polite and direct, if photography is your hobby and you enjoy taking pictures of pigeons on park benches.. then say so

If directed to move along...... I would suggest you do so. Even if your right. Many times a police officer may ask someone to do something and when that person does not do it they often find themselves being charged w/something..... disorderly conduct is usually the catch all.

Hope this helps

Disorderly conduct is usually defined as such:

A person who recklessly, knowingly, or intentionally: (1) engages in fighting or in tumultuous conduct; (2) makes unreasonable noise and continues to do so after being asked to stop; or (3) disrupts a lawful assembly of persons;

By that definition, wouldn't the arresting officer be the one guilty of disrputing a lawful assembly of persons?

Listen, Ill carry my ID with me at all times, but Im not going to carry my work with me, that's ridiculous.

Furthermore it doesnt matter if taking pictures is a hobby a job or I am a journalist doing it for the paper... in FACT it doesn't even matter if I am a terrorism using the picture to plot an attack. The fact remains it's LEGAL to take the pictures. That's like saying it's illegal to LOOK at the building to plot an attack. Therefore the reason for my picture taking doesn't matter... so the officer has no right to now.

Would I be that rude? It depends on the officer honestly. He wants to arrest me, so be it. I'd love to see my day in court over it.

Kingpatzer · Apr 11, 2007

It does depend on the officer. I've met more than a few who simply shouldn't be allowed to carry a badge.

Don't get me wrong, most cops are great guys doing a very hard and often thankless job.

But there is a substantial minority with serious control issues. They're basically school yard bullies who never grew up and managed to find a job that caters to their issues.

Most communities of any size have one or two (or more) and they do create problems.

Luckily, most prosecutors are well aware of who the problem officers are.

Be polite. But if someone's stepping on your toes, it's always nice to have a good lawyer's number on your cell phone . . .