"true black and white"

[bribrius]

if you shoot a photo and have it printed checking off the box "true black and white" why is it a different tint than what you started with which was already bw? I thought black and white was black and white. Darks, lights. etc.
am i not supposed to be checking this box when i shoot bw film? Is this for those doing digital conversions?
Also, what is the point of choosing matte finish and adding lustre?


How come people prefer kodak endura or ilford over fuji?
i have avoided a lab just because they stated they use fuji. And i read bad things about fuji paper. And walmart uses fuji and i noticed my images from there come out a little different.

 

[bribrius]

Online Printing - Photosmith Imaging Dover NH. Photo printing services from Digital and Film.
my semi local lab uses "fuji crystal archive" paper.
i thought this stuff was chit, part of the reason i dont use them. Same stuff walmart uses isn't it? Am i wrong?

 

[KenC]

Many printers use the colored inks to print in B&W. Unless the software is very good at balancing the ink outputs you often end up getting a color cast. You have to use a printer that has good software (e.g., Epson and probably other specialized photo printers) or somehow tell the printer to use only black ink if that's possible in the printer driver. As for commercial print services, who knows? I guess you could ask what printer they use and whether they can get a neutral B&W.

Depending on how much and what kind of tint you are getting you might be able to tint the photo slightly in the other direction to compensate - not optimum obviously but if you're stuck with a place that can't get neutral tone it could be worth a try. For example, if you're getting a very slight blue-green cast, which I've seen from some printers, a slight sepia tint should hide it.

 

[bribrius]

Many printers use the colored inks to print in B&W. Unless the software is very good at balancing the ink outputs you often end up getting a color cast. You have to use a printer that has good software (e.g., Epson and probably other specialized photo printers) or somehow tell the printer to use only black ink if that's possible in the printer driver. As for commercial print services, who knows? I guess you could ask what printer they use and whether they can get a neutral B&W.

Depending on how much and what kind of tint you are getting you might be able to tint the photo slightly in the other direction to compensate - not optimum obviously but if you're stuck with a place that can't get neutral tone it could be worth a try. For example, if you're getting a very slight blue-green cast, which I've seen from some printers, a slight sepia tint should hide it.

informative, thanks. I am a little confused over this. So basically if i check off true black and white they SHOULD be using just blacks.. I am only thinking about all this now because i am getting a order together and want the bw to all go to matte and not be frigged with. Looking at what they are using for paper too. I just signed up for a miller pro account. Not sure if it is worth it. Maybe it makes a difference, maybe not. The mpix photos were coming out with a blue/green tint. But mostly after it seems i checked off the "true black and white" which made me really wonder..

 

[KenC]

I don't think we have any idea what happens when you check "true black and white." It would be worth asking them. Since you're getting a color cast I doubt they are printing with just black ink.

 

[bribrius]

I don't think we have any idea what happens when you check "true black and white." It would be worth asking them. Since you're getting a color cast I doubt they are printing with just black ink.

yeah. kind of like the color correct box. I thought checking the box aligned the color to their printers so you kept the actual color in your photo the same. Then i started looking through photos and the ones i didnt check off color correct actually seemed closer in color.
It is a giant mystery to me...
The benefits of figuring it out though, is there is a lot more options than you mind find in your home dark room to choose from. I am looking at metallic prints too. Not planning on printing a lot, just what i print i need to come out right they are going in frames. The lustre over matte, i admit i really don't get. If you order matte you would think you wouldnt want the coating messing up the matte. Paper choices too. Just trying to learn my way around so i have the right effect in printing on the right photo. And it seems more logical to dicuss these thing here then send a order in for a hundred dollars or whatever in prints only to get them back and realize you wasted all you money.

 

[gsgary]

Why would you want a digital print of a b+w negative ? They don't compare to a wet print, find a local darkroom

 

[Derrel]

I think "true B&W" might be a key for the plant's film sorting, meaning old-style, true B&W films, as opposed to new-fangled C-41 process chromogenic B&W film, which is developed in the same chemistry as C-41 color negative film, at the same time, same everything. Until it is tagged by the machine with the roll number, film rolls must stay inside the envelope at the plant, and film is sorted cannister-unseen, by the envelopes and the markings on the processing envelopes.

 

[bribrius]

I think "true B&W" might be a key for the plant's film sorting, meaning old-style, true B&W films, as opposed to new-fangled C-41 process chromogenic B&W film, which is developed in the same chemistry as C-41 color negative film, at the same time, same everything. Until it is tagged by the machine with the roll number, film rolls must stay inside the envelope at the plant, and film is sorted cannister-unseen, by the envelopes and the markings on the processing envelopes.

interesting thought...

 

[vintagesnaps]

That could be...

Are you having just B&W processed? What I had to do at the local camera store chain (which since went out of business) was to have them mark it Don't Adjust. That was because I was bracketing shots sometimes and on the proof sheet once they adjusted then I couldn't tell which ones might be more dense or thin (I wanted to see which would likely be the best ones to make prints in the darkroom).

The place I used to go before that went out of business when the owner retired years ago and I didn't have those kind of problems then... good ol' days, hated to see him close up shop.

For color I find the Fuji crystal archive to be thin compared to good ol' Kodak but it depends on the lab I think what paper they use.

I print my own digitally and got sample packs to try different papers - I like more glossy looking finishes. I find that in Photoshop I have to watch the top of the screen with B&W and make sure it doesn't show RGB before I print. Usually that happens if I've scanned in a darkroom print to make a digital copy and the scanner adds some color cast. I double check it and if it shows up I use the Remove Color setting or set it as Grayscale to get rid of the color cast (that the scanner just added!). So maybe check the negs and the scans...

I'd maybe just do a small order to start and see how they turn out before getting into a big expense. I've heard of Old School Photo Lab, their procedures seem similar to The Darkroom in San Clemente where I've sent out, but they print digitally from the scans. I'd like to find someplace that does wet prints.

 

[bribrius]

That could be...

Are you having just B&W processed? What I had to do at the local camera store chain (which since went out of business) was to have them mark it Don't Adjust. That was because I was bracketing shots sometimes and on the proof sheet once they adjusted then I couldn't tell which ones might be more dense or thin (I wanted to see which would likely be the best ones to make prints in the darkroom).

The place I used to go before that went out of business when the owner retired years ago and I didn't have those kind of problems then... good ol' days, hated to see him close up shop.

For color I find the Fuji crystal archive to be thin compared to good ol' Kodak but it depends on the lab I think what paper they use.

I print my own digitally and got sample packs to try different papers - I like more glossy looking finishes. I find that in Photoshop I have to watch the top of the screen with B&W and make sure it doesn't show RGB before I print. Usually that happens if I've scanned in a darkroom print to make a digital copy and the scanner adds some color cast. I double check it and if it shows up I use the Remove Color setting or set it as Grayscale to get rid of the color cast (that the scanner just added!). So maybe check the negs and the scans...

I'd maybe just do a small order to start and see how they turn out before getting into a big expense. I've heard of Old School Photo Lab, their procedures seem similar to The Darkroom in San Clemente where I've sent out, but they print digitally from the scans. I'd like to find someplace that does wet prints.

old school photo is the closest place too me. I have talked with them. The prices are higher though and again, they seem to use that fuji paper. Not sure if it is the same walmart uses. I could compare them. And yes, bw and color prints but mostly worried about the bw matte. I signed for a miller account, was using mpix. Maybe i will give miller a go they give a couple free tests with a new account opening (so they just sent me a email). That old dilemma on money. The stuff i don't care too much i want the cheapest price. The few things i really care about i will find the money in the budget as i care enough to figure it out. I actually spent quite a bit last year on prints. And since i don't do this commercially, i eat that cost. I am not selling them.