Very first wedding, $300 too much or too little?

[cgipson1]

Honestly, I can't for the life of me figure out why some state or local government hasn't decided to regulate the professional activities of people that want to call themselves photographers...

Maybe I should start a new thread.

Been there, done that, started fights!!!

 

[Designer]

I can't for the life of me figure out why this thread is still alive.

 

[c.cloudwalker]

I can't for the life of me figure out why this thread is still alive.

Yeah, why does anyone waste their time on threads like this one?

I can deal with the first couple answers but when the OP tells us he knows better, well then...

 

[Karloz]

The first wedding was the most difficult one for me to get. and I remember well the confusion I had experienced and still do actually over the pricing aspect . I charge what I feel comfortable charging. Initially it was not very much. Now I chnage more becuse I am comfortable and people are paying what I ask - I will put m,y prices up next year as my skill and experience grow.

By the way you have done a great job - keep it up.

 

[jamesbjenkins]

I charge what I feel comfortable charging.

Unless your "comfort" is driven by a clearly defined business plan, and an analysis of your COGS, CODB and desired profit margin, your "comfort" is completely subjective and ambiguous and therefore worthless.

 

[mjhoward]

I can't for the life of me figure out why this thread is still alive.

Because most members of this forum care more about drama than photography.

 

[Jonathan Schertzer]

Camera type and technical ability aside, I think an important part about shooting weddings that hasn't really been discussed is whether or not you truly enjoy weddings and want to shoot them.

On your FLICKR account, you have a wide variety - urban, landscape, expressive, family, self, but all of it has basically the same feel. For example, your skateboarding shots are great, as are your landscapes, and all look to be processed the same but the wedding samples you provided look as though 5 or 6 different people shot them. In your FLICKR, I see very good examples of sound composition, Cup of Bokeh, seriously, that is awesome and I love it, but your compositions seem weaker in the wedding samples. I know this is your first wedding and you said you were shooting mostly on the fly but it could be something else too, perhaps lack of interest beyond the technical challenge?

This is just my opinion but I think people expect to feel some type of emotion when looking at wedding photographs, they want to see a story, feel as though they are there. If you can accomplish that, then you can consider yourself a wedding photograph and charge accordingly. After watching your slideshow and viewing your samples, I didn't really feel anything. Sure you had some nice shots in the slideshow that were technically sound and some very pretty ones as well, but there were many that were sub par that never should have been included - by including them, it ruined the mood of the series, almost as though we get excited to see a good one and then let down by a lesser one.

Again, this is my personal opinion but I think someone who wants to be a wedding photographer should truly like weddings and respect the sentiment behind them. They should genuinely want to capture the emotions that are seen on what could be the most important day in a person's life. A wedding photographer should know that while it gets crazy sometimes, they might need to get everyone in line (not literally) for certain shots that a bride will want to have later - they should know the key sentiments to capture, regardless of the chaos going on around them. If you don't truly have all of this in you, then you owe it to the Bride and Groom to respectfully decline and refer them to someone else, after all, you can't re-shoot a wedding.

If your heart and mind are truly in it, then go for it but your samples so far don't suggest that you still have a ways to go. Also, CODB aside, only you can put a value on your art. If a bride sees your work (again, you should have a signature style) and likes your work - she will pay for it whether it is $300 or $3000. What myself and other people here value it at is irrelevant (IMO), it is what a bride wants that matters and what she is willing to spend for it. What you may want to do is start out low while you learn and increase by a certain amount every 3-5 weddings you shoot. Keep in mind that for each client, the photographers who are charging more are probably producing between 800-2000 QUALITY images per 10 hour wedding - if you aren't, then you should remain at a lower rate until you are.

Again, just my opinion.

Perfectly sound and reasonable response, not condescending, Arrogant, or just completely angry for some reason.
This reply give me some things to think about, some consideration to do, and ultimately something to grow from.

And i feel like i do like wedding photography, while it was very hard to stay onto of everything, Especially with a super hectic unorganized wedding. But it was a lot of fun.

I think my problem was that i asked a question, i should have just said "I got $1000 for this wedding, and these are the shots" and i probably would have gotten a couple people say "those are nice" and some people say " you need a little improving" but because i asked a question, i lit the fire under a bunch of very angry, short tempered, "professional" photographers who couldn't think of anything better to say than "i hate it when people try to play "pro photographer" "

But i guess people just like to hold themselves in the highest regard.

Anyway, thank you for your response and thanks to everyone else who skipped the insults, assumptions, and their perceived self worth and gave me an honest opinion whether good or bad.

and the result is that i am going to hold off on professional jobs and try to find some jobs as a 2nd shooter where ever i can.

The problem was that you asked a question that we see all the time! Usually by somebody that got their camera ( low end entry consumer model, one bad kit lens, and no additional flash or gear (except maybe a grip since it "looks PRO")) two months ago at Best Buy... and hung up a shingle! They usually use AUTO or P mode (Professional Mode).. and have no concept of DOF, decent exposure, composition, etc.... and they talk about how "EXPENSIVE" their gear was! lol!

There are some here very sensitive to that.. me included!

Does that help with understanding?

That makes sense, however has nothing to do with me. I have a VERY firm understanding of photography concepts Especially Considering my length of shooting time, formal education in photography, informal education in photography, the quality of my work, and the past experience working professionally in the skateboarding industry.

Also, i shoot in auto mode, as well as AP, TV, and even program all the time, and i really hope "professionals" do too, While at this point in my photographic career i can pretty much guess the exposure in any given room/situation that doesn't mean i need to prove how "professional" i am but constantly shooting in manual.

I swear some of the points you guys bring up in this thread are just a joke. While some of you have given good answers most of you are just spewing out nonsense. For those of you who think i am not listening, i am and i've decided to take your advice and take up 2nd shooting for a while, also i've even decided to take a couple business classes at my community college because what the hell.

i think some of you are confusing "professionalism" with the ability egotistically make cut downs thats have no substance. Because you have more of less "made it" as a professional. Especially with just complete idiocy like:

"your not "professional" because you shoot with a 60D, professionals shoot with 5d mark iis"
"your not "professional" because you use Auto"
"your not "professional" because you didn't 2nd shoot first"
"Your not "professional" because you equipment doesn't cost 10grand"

I'd like you too really take a look at those phrases and really realize how stupid they sound because those words, right there, came out of YOUR mouths.

 

[c.cloudwalker]

Perfectly sound and reasonable response, not condescending, Arrogant, or just completely angry for some reason.
This reply give me some things to think about, some consideration to do, and ultimately something to grow from.

And i feel like i do like wedding photography, while it was very hard to stay onto of everything, Especially with a super hectic unorganized wedding. But it was a lot of fun.

I think my problem was that i asked a question, i should have just said "I got $1000 for this wedding, and these are the shots" and i probably would have gotten a couple people say "those are nice" and some people say " you need a little improving" but because i asked a question, i lit the fire under a bunch of very angry, short tempered, "professional" photographers who couldn't think of anything better to say than "i hate it when people try to play "pro photographer" "

But i guess people just like to hold themselves in the highest regard.

Anyway, thank you for your response and thanks to everyone else who skipped the insults, assumptions, and their perceived self worth and gave me an honest opinion whether good or bad.

and the result is that i am going to hold off on professional jobs and try to find some jobs as a 2nd shooter where ever i can.

The problem was that you asked a question that we see all the time! Usually by somebody that got their camera ( low end entry consumer model, one bad kit lens, and no additional flash or gear (except maybe a grip since it "looks PRO")) two months ago at Best Buy... and hung up a shingle! They usually use AUTO or P mode (Professional Mode).. and have no concept of DOF, decent exposure, composition, etc.... and they talk about how "EXPENSIVE" their gear was! lol!

There are some here very sensitive to that.. me included!

Does that help with understanding?

That makes sense, however has nothing to do with me. I have a VERY firm understanding of photography concepts Especially Considering my length of shooting time, formal education in photography, informal education in photography, the quality of my work, and the past experience working professionally in the skateboarding industry.

Also, i shoot in auto mode, as well as AP, TV, and even program all the time, and i really hope "professionals" do too, While at this point in my photographic career i can pretty much guess the exposure in any given room/situation that doesn't mean i need to prove how "professional" i am but constantly shooting in manual.

You are so fooking good, why are you asking what we thing?

 

[manaheim]

Who let cloudwalker out of Arkham?

 

[12sndsgood]

Perfectly sound and reasonable response, not condescending, Arrogant, or just completely angry for some reason.
This reply give me some things to think about, some consideration to do, and ultimately something to grow from.

And i feel like i do like wedding photography, while it was very hard to stay onto of everything, Especially with a super hectic unorganized wedding. But it was a lot of fun.

I think my problem was that i asked a question, i should have just said "I got $1000 for this wedding, and these are the shots" and i probably would have gotten a couple people say "those are nice" and some people say " you need a little improving" but because i asked a question, i lit the fire under a bunch of very angry, short tempered, "professional" photographers who couldn't think of anything better to say than "i hate it when people try to play "pro photographer" "

But i guess people just like to hold themselves in the highest regard.

Anyway, thank you for your response and thanks to everyone else who skipped the insults, assumptions, and their perceived self worth and gave me an honest opinion whether good or bad.

and the result is that i am going to hold off on professional jobs and try to find some jobs as a 2nd shooter where ever i can.

The problem was that you asked a question that we see all the time! Usually by somebody that got their camera ( low end entry consumer model, one bad kit lens, and no additional flash or gear (except maybe a grip since it "looks PRO")) two months ago at Best Buy... and hung up a shingle! They usually use AUTO or P mode (Professional Mode).. and have no concept of DOF, decent exposure, composition, etc.... and they talk about how "EXPENSIVE" their gear was! lol!

There are some here very sensitive to that.. me included!

Does that help with understanding?

That makes sense, however has nothing to do with me. I have a VERY firm understanding of photography concepts Especially Considering my length of shooting time, formal education in photography, informal education in photography, the quality of my work, and the past experience working professionally in the skateboarding industry.

Also, i shoot in auto mode, as well as AP, TV, and even program all the time, and i really hope "professionals" do too, While at this point in my photographic career i can pretty much guess the exposure in any given room/situation that doesn't mean i need to prove how "professional" i am but constantly shooting in manual.

I swear some of the points you guys bring up in this thread are just a joke. While some of you have given good answers most of you are just spewing out nonsense. For those of you who think i am not listening, i am and i've decided to take your advice and take up 2nd shooting for a while, also i've even decided to take a couple business classes at my community college because what the hell.

i think some of you are confusing "professionalism" with the ability egotistically make cut downs thats have no substance. Because you have more of less "made it" as a professional. Especially with just complete idiocy like:

"your not "professional" because you shoot with a 60D, professionals shoot with 5d mark iis"
"your not "professional" because you use Auto"
"your not "professional" because you didn't 2nd shoot first"
"Your not "professional" because you equipment doesn't cost 10grand"

I'd like you too really take a look at those phrases and really realize how stupid they sound because those words, right there, came out of YOUR mouths.

almost as stupid as "was $300 bucks to much".

wether you can work a camera great or not won't really matter if you don't know the business side. I would think if you were working profesionally in the skateboard industry you would know how to charge for your time by now.

 

[Jonathan Schertzer]

CORRECT!, my question of is 300 too much was stupid, but i don't claim to be a "Professional".
and skateboarding is contract, not freelance. Big difference.

 

[12sndsgood]

there is a diffrence, but when you signed the contract did you just blindy agree, or did you look at it and decided it was something you could live with and actually be making money on. you problaby looked at it, decided this was good for you and agreed. at least I hope you did.

your first post said I carry $2500 worth of gear. me reading that took it as you saying, I have this expensive gear so that should factor into my costs. when really it doesnt as someone else pointed out that $2500 isnt that much. it was really not a factor but it came off as you boasting like you had big gear. so the responces came according to how they viewed what you were saying. and then when a few people told you that you base your price off of the cost of doing business(CODB) you somewhat responded back with a snotty attitue, or at least that was how most people preceived it. so when someone sees a good responce and then sees someone give what they percieve as a snotty reply they arn't going to be nice to you.

 

[jamesbjenkins]

CORRECT!, my question of is 300 too much was stupid, but i don't claim to be a "Professional".
and skateboarding is contract, not freelance. Big difference.

Hate to break it to you, Junior, but by the very definition of the word, the moment you accept payment for services rendered (or agreed to be rendered), you are presenting yourself as a professional.

All these other ambiguous definition based on gear or second shooting or other nonsense are just semantic blah-dee-blah that insecure people try to use to elevate themselves by pushing others down.

Simple: by the purest definition of the word, if someone pays you to do something, you are acting as a professional _________.

If you don't want that responsibility, then stop soliciting or accepting clients until you are ready.