Wedding client altered my contract

Discussion in 'General Shop Talk' started by Jmm06, Sep 7, 2017.

  1. Jmm06

    Jmm06 TPF Noob!

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2017
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    US of A
    Maybe in the future when I gather more experience I'll discuss giving copyright to clients, but for now I'll pass. That's a great idea on the PDF - I don't know why I didn't do so. Thank you.


     
  2. Bill The Lurker

    Bill The Lurker TPF Noob!

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2017
    Messages:
    62
    Likes Received:
    14
    Can others edit my Photos:
    Photos OK to edit
    there are substantial areas of business in which making edits to contracts is standard practice. in fact the retail photography business is the only one i can think of offhand where certain vendors brush off the idea of editing a contract.

    a pdf can be printed and marked up with a pen. don't rely on technology to solve what is ultimately a problem of local customs.

    its clear that what the client wants is some form of leverage. they want some legal recourse which gives them somethign otehr than a refund in the event that you drop the ball and fail to deliver, which isn't a horrible idea. they're not going to get a chance to reshoot.

    obvously you'll be told that this is an awful idea and you should just blow these losers off, but if you offered them the right to a complete cpy of your raw unedited files if AND ONLY IF you fail to deliver by such and such a date and after so and so procedures for recourse blah blah. this covers them if you drop dead before you can get the edits done, etc, and it's obviously all they're looking for.

    if you wanted to get fancy you could drop a copy of the data in escrow the morning after the wedding, and pick it up after you complete your deliverables
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  3. petrochemist

    petrochemist No longer a newbie, moving up!

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2014
    Messages:
    1,054
    Likes Received:
    247
    Location:
    North Essex UK
    Can others edit my Photos:
    Photos OK to edit
    Their changes to the copyright section make no sense. They want to hold copyright while you have to work on the images, but not have it once they have the digital copies! I'm sure they will freely use those digital files regardless of copyright.
    They also are demanding ALL the images that alone would be enough for me to politely turn them down.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Vtec44

    Vtec44 Been spending a lot of time on here!

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2008
    Messages:
    3,147
    Likes Received:
    1,466
    Location:
    So Cal
    Can others edit my Photos:
    Photos NOT OK to edit
    You run a business, you set your policies within the legal limits of the laws. Your potential clients will either agree and go forward with your services or or don't agree and find someone else. You can't walk into a bank, trying to get a loan, and alter the lending agreement and tell the bank to agree to it. In my personal opinion, I would decline this client in a heart beat. Your sanity is worth more than this.

    1. The copyright clause doesn't make any sense and can get you in huge mess if you go through with it.
    2. The client usage and model release portion should be covered under the Fair Use Act
    3. I'm not an attorney and this client sounds like a big headache.
     
  5. benhasajeep

    benhasajeep No longer a newbie, moving up!

    Top Poster Of Month

    Joined:
    May 4, 2006
    Messages:
    4,017
    Likes Received:
    494
    With weddings your always wary of bridezillas or momzillas. And this just might be a clue to just that.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. astroNikon

    astroNikon 'ya all Bananas I tell 'ya Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2013
    Messages:
    13,190
    Likes Received:
    3,209
    Location:
    SE Michigan
    Can others edit my Photos:
    Photos OK to edit
    I just read the first couple lines but ... Put it this way

    YOU are now LIABLE for what your CLIENT deems any breach of contract or PERCEIVED breach of contract.

    DON'T DO IT ... just don't do it. WALK away as fast as you can.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. Designer

    Designer Been spending a lot of time on here!

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2012
    Messages:
    16,070
    Likes Received:
    4,020
    Location:
    Iowa
    Can others edit my Photos:
    Photos OK to edit
    How badly do you need the job?
     
  8. Designer

    Designer Been spending a lot of time on here!

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2012
    Messages:
    16,070
    Likes Received:
    4,020
    Location:
    Iowa
    Can others edit my Photos:
    Photos OK to edit
    Actually, I don't think you can even do that. Please consult an attorney who practices in copyright law, but in my opinion, the copyright ALWAYS belongs to the creator, who can then sell/lease publishing rights as he wishes.

    See what staying at a Holiday Inn Express can do for you?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Jmm06

    Jmm06 TPF Noob!

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2017
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    US of A
    It's almost as the client has switched the power and protection of my contract to favor in theirs, leaving me exposed. Therefore making me liable for any perceived breach of contract the client deems so.
     
  10. Bill The Lurker

    Bill The Lurker TPF Noob!

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2017
    Messages:
    62
    Likes Received:
    14
    Can others edit my Photos:
    Photos OK to edit
    well, yes. generally when negotiating a contract one tries to make it more advantageous to oneself and, perhaps, less so to the other parties. this is normal.

    this client does not seem to be aware that retail photographers don't negotiate contracts, and doesn't understand enough of the technicalities on copyright law to write anything that makes sense. their intent is clear, though.

    properly their idea would be structured, probably, as making the wedding photography a "work for hire" with the copyrights to the pictures transferring to the photographer at the successful conclusion of the contracted work. there's no reason, beyond tradition, that this isn't a perfectly sensible way to do things. the end result is the same when all goes well, and the client has a little more legal leverage if things go pear shaped.

    a thought experiment: what happens if you get hit by a bus after the wedding but before you do any editing?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. astroNikon

    astroNikon 'ya all Bananas I tell 'ya Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2013
    Messages:
    13,190
    Likes Received:
    3,209
    Location:
    SE Michigan
    Can others edit my Photos:
    Photos OK to edit
    Where in their revised contract does it allow you to do that ??

    Don't think in what "you read" the contract states. But think in what the "customer" thinks the contract states. If it doesn't specifically states something, then it DOES NOT specifically state it. If you gave them small JPEGs then you could be in breach of contract.

    I'd rather have a verbal contract than the one they provided.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2017
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Jmm06

    Jmm06 TPF Noob!

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2017
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    US of A


    Couldn't agree more. There were minor changes that were negotiable, but the client changing my contract without giving me a heads up the copyright and a vast majority of the model release were red flags. Thanks for your advice.
     

Share This Page