Wedding client altered my contract

Discussion in 'General Shop Talk' started by Jmm06, Sep 7, 2017.

  1. Jmm06

    Jmm06 TPF Noob!

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    Not badly enough that it will give me a heartburn and a headache.


     
  2. Jmm06

    Jmm06 TPF Noob!

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    That's good to know, I'll look into that. Thank you.
     
  3. Bill The Lurker

    Bill The Lurker TPF Noob!

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  4. Jmm06

    Jmm06 TPF Noob!

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    That's definitely good to know, thank you. We agreed verbally over the phone upon giving them jpgs of all the images but nothing specific on size. I should clarify on that then.
     
  5. vintagesnaps

    vintagesnaps Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    A photographer provides the final product (digital images, albums, etc.) - not the original Raw images, not JPEGS of everything, only the final product.

    Usually providing 'everything' including copyright may be done for commercial work at a high price. (Didn't Charlie (Snowbear) say thousands? that's it.) Or it's work for hire, which is usually done if the photographer is an employee and his/her job is taking photos.

    I don't think I'd sign your contract if I was a client (because of the perpetual, unrestricted etc. including heirs, etc. etc.). As a photographer I don't get the part about commercial use without consent - why allow a client that at all? If it's my work it's not up to a client to use my work in any other way; the photos are for their personal use, period.

    But what the client expects is inappropriate. You automatically own the copyright when you take the picture; those rights can be sold or transferred but I don't see how it's even possible for a client to hold copyright to photos they don't even have yet. And then to give copyright back to the photographer after the client gets all the photos, that doesn't make sense.

    You need to know more about this type thing so you can have an informed discussion with the client and be able to explain things. Get on American Society of Media Photographers - Homepage or PPA and find resources from pro photographer organizations on contracts, licensing usage, etc. etc. You need to do some 'homework' so you know this stuff. And ASMP has webinars, and work/contract samples, etc. so you don't have to totally reinvent the wheel.
     
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  6. Jmm06

    Jmm06 TPF Noob!

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    It seems to me that I would need to assure the client about the copyright laws since they don't have an understanding of it and see if we're on the same page. As for your thought experiment, although that sounds a bit dramatic, I would have my girlfriend give the clients unedited jpg photos and have a photographer friend of mine, edit and complete the task.
     
  7. KmH

    KmH Helping photographers learn to fish Supporting Member

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    There is no "Fair Use Act".
    US Copyright law has a Fair Use Doctrine.
    When a copyright owner files an infringement action, Fair Use is adjudicated on a case-by-case basis in the Federal courts.
    About the Fair Use Index | U.S. Copyright Office
    Of course if the OP isn't in the US (no location info in profile) US Copyright law would not apply.
    It should also be noted that release law varies by state in the US.

    If the OP is in the US the second line under Copyright is not needed. It's counter productive to clutter up a contract with useless language.
    I wonder. Has OP's contract been reviewed by a qualified attorney?

    Negotiating contract terms is not something many retail photographers do. The OP could negotiate contracts terms both could agree too.
    If negotiations fail have the prospective customer seek another photographer.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2017
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  8. Jmm06

    Jmm06 TPF Noob!

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    Even though the client specifically requested that they would like all of the unedited photos of the wedding. Otherwise like what you've mentioned in the first sentence, in the past I've have always gave my clients the final product and only so.

    I'm guessing that the client is thinking this as a work-made-for-hire relationship with the photographer. I do not think my client understands the photography copyright laws - therefore I need to inform them and see if we're on the same page.

    That's why I approached ThePhotoForum for valuable advice and find a direction of where I need to go. Thank you for your help.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2017
  9. vintagesnaps

    vintagesnaps Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    Like Keith said, a prospective client often needs to go find another photographer, (such as a person with a camera who will give them a CD then disappear into the night - yes, sarcasm intended! lol) if they want all the photos, unedited.

    Pro photographers don't do that because it's your reputation on the line. So when a bunch of crappy looking badly edited pictures credited to you show up online posted by a client it makes you look like a crap photographer.

    Think about other types of jobs or services - is it acceptable to give a customer half done work? no. It's like if I'm writing something, would I give someone my notes or rough draft? no. Not unless for example it's a class/job and my instructor/boss wants to see the rough draft first; I have shared my rough draft with a colleague for a project being worked on. Beyond that I'm going to send out a final typed letter/article, not what's scribbled on a piece of paper.

    I agree with clarifying it because the client doesn't know copyright information.
     
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  10. Vtec44

    Vtec44 Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    There is a Fair Use Act, but you're right it would cover under Fair Use Doctrine and not Fair Use Act of 2007.
     

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