Wedding photographers... I have a few questions!

[rwilliams]

1) Do you let your client see ALL of the photos you take?
2) Do you give the client all of the images you take on a CD/USB?
3) If not, how many do you give them?
4) Do you let them choose which ones they want or do you go through and pick the best ones?

 

[sscarmack]

1) Do you let your client see ALL of the photos you take?
No, not until I go through first.

2) Do you give the client all of the images you take on a CD/USB?
Yes, but I weed out all the bad ones.

3) If not, how many do you give them?
Between 400-500, after I cut down a lot of them.

4) Do you let them choose which ones they want or do you go through and pick the best ones?
I choose the originals, if they want anything special after, its extra.

 

[Overread]

1) A client should never see photos that you're not willing to have your name printed upon and held up as a display of your work to the public. So no, the general public has no reason nor need to see all your photos. Your client doesn't need to see 10 shots of the same group pose so that you can ensure you can get everyone's eyes open - they don't need to see any exposure/lighting test shots - they don't need to see the shots that (for whatever reason) didn't work.

2) This is a loaded question because it depends what your company structure and market approach is.

If you're aiming to make the bulk of your earning and profit from the sitting fee then providing a CD of digital copies isn't a problem.
If you're aiming to make money from prints then chances are you shouldn't be offering anything more than "facebook" resized versions on a CD (otherwise they'll just take the fullsize CD and go print them at home).

Digital product is part of todays market so you've got to be aware of what you're delivering. Ensure the meta-data has your name/company name and copyright info filled in for each photo - ensure that if you're providing "Facebook" sized photos that they are resized and ready for Facebook - if you're providing fullsized images ensure they are print ready and supply a suggested printing service for them to use.

Generally the advice is to go through the print ready photos with the client to select prints; that way you can use sales skills to sell them more photos than the otherwise would likely buy.

3) For review as many as are ready to print and of quality in line with your personal standards. Ensuring that you remove any duplicates.

4) Depends on your setup and approach; although there is a good motive to making the selection yourself and letting them adjust; otherwise a volume of work can overwhelm them and it slows the process right down

 

[rwilliams]

I'll go ahead and add the reason I'm asking.. I recently had a client that I originally gave 200 edited images to preview. I was the only shooter and it was my first wedding on my own. I've worked with a photographer before and this was always roughly the amount he gave.

The mother of the bride (she's the one that paid me) wanted more photos, which honestly, I was okay with. However, it was a short and simple ceremony and most of the other photos I didn't include were pretty much duplicates or photos that people were making bad faces, etc. She wasn't very polite about it, but I wanted a happy client. So, I went through and edited pretty much every photo that was in focus and usable. At this point, she had 450 photos. She said she was happy with the additional photos. Then a few days later, she was asking for more photos. She asked if she could look through all of the photos I had taken because she was certain I took more than what I was showing her. She never complained about the quality of my work, just simply that she wanted more. I reassured her that she had seen everything I had taken except for the photos that weren't usable. She said that everyone she spoke to said that their photographer gave them all of their photos. I told her I was pretty sure that most photographers went through and removed duplicates, photos out of focus, etc, etc... but I figured I'd check here to know for sure.

This has been several weeks ago and I'm still waiting for them to send me their selections for prints. It's been a pretty stressful experience for a first wedding and I'm really re-thinking the idea of ever doing another one. :\

 

[Overread]

People think that every shot a pro takes is a keeper and they want all their monies worth and that, for some reason, professionals will hold back photos from them. It's daft thinking, but many think like that; ideally you want to give them X number of photos - that's it. Those are the keepers, there are no more.

At something like a wedding you might ask what their reason is and if there is a specific person they are looking for, since sometimes they are happy just to get a photo (even if its not great) of people who showed up for the wedding, but who otherwise are rarely seen (weddings tend to get people travelling long distance to attend).

Otherwise you shouldn't be giving in and showing yet more. Yes they'll say that "everyone else got more" or "so and so gave more to such and such". That doesn't really matter one bit - you've shown them the shots that are the keepers and that's it.

 

[greggphoto]

Absolutely --- this is not typical of most clients. This one in particular just happens to have your number and knows she can strong arm you into giving her more thinking that you're trying to pull one over on her. She just needs a little bit of re-assurance. Pull back the curtain a little bit and let her know that the "more" shots you took are merely doubles and triples to make sure your lighting was correct and that you got a good facial expression, or to make sure the person was looking the right way and did not blink. You want to reassure her that you gave her only the best of your images and have deleted the rest because they are not usable and you wouldn't want those sorts of images floating out there as a representation of your best work.

Definitely also ask if there was someone specific that they are looking for. And get yourself a 2nd photographer -- even if it is just someone who roves around taking pictures of couples. The clients will be happier and you will be less stressed doing weddings. TRUST ME IT HELPS IMMENSELY.

 

[Light Guru]

Sounds like you didn't have a contract detailing what you would deliver. Always have a detailed contract.

If your contract states you will deliver 200 edited photos and they want more then they need to pay you more for the time it takes to edit more.

 

[pgriz]

I'm in the contracting business, and one of the clauses in my contract is that I'm delivering a finished product, which is clearly defined. Anything in excess of, or different from the defined finished product is extra. Even such things as ownership of additional materials brought to site, or the scrap that results from work needs to be clearly spelled out. Otherwise, you will be unpleasantly surprised at what people think you owe them when the deliverables and process aren't clearly defined.

In your situation, the equivalent clause for your contract would be something like " Delivery of 200 edited images of the dimensions (xxxx-yyyy) on CD in the JPG format, at 50% compression, as per photographer's professional judgement, in the style of the images previously seen on the photographers web site. Any other processing, additional images, or delivery of sizes other than specified, will constitute extra work and will involve the following charges: (description of the charging formula)." Of course, these details MUST be negotiated in advance and be part of a written contract.

 

[sscarmack]

I've done maybe 30 weddings so far and can count on one finger how many contracts I've written lol.

I do all my messaging through emails, so I have logs of everything and it is all agreed upon in black and white.

Most of my clients don't feel the need for contracts and I'm not trying to make my life any harder.

So I keep all my emails just in case they try saying the didn't agree to something.

 

[Overread]

Keeping emails is a good move; although a contract can still help in many ways; since it acts as a formal agreement - a final "here is what we are doing."

It helps keep things neat and tidy, if you're doing it by email there is more chance that you can end up doing more extra things (course this also means you can use sale skills to sell more services); or that you could have a series of exchanges, at the end of which the previously agreed services have changed significantly; a contract helps to bind it all together and removes any confusion that could arise.

It also lets you spell out things like copyright ownership and such which you likely won't have arise in most client to customer interactions; especially if you're dealing with the general public.

 

[tirediron]

Keeping emails is a good move; although a contract can still help in many ways; since it acts as a formal agreement - a final "here is what we are doing."

It helps keep things neat and tidy, if you're doing it by email there is more chance that you can end up doing more extra things (course this also means you can use sale skills to sell more services); or that you could have a series of exchanges, at the end of which the previously agreed services have changed significantly; a contract helps to bind it all together and removes any confusion that could arise.

It also lets you spell out things like copyright ownership and such which you likely won't have arise in most client to customer interactions; especially if you're dealing with the general public.

Yep... ^^ That! It's NOT (IMO) so that you can pull the client through the mud if they don't honour it, rather it's a one-stop document which [should] spell out everything about the event and the responsibilities on both sides.

 

[waday]

Keeping emails is a good move; although a contract can still help in many ways; since it acts as a formal agreement - a final "here is what we are doing."

It helps keep things neat and tidy, if you're doing it by email there is more chance that you can end up doing more extra things (course this also means you can use sale skills to sell more services); or that you could have a series of exchanges, at the end of which the previously agreed services have changed significantly; a contract helps to bind it all together and removes any confusion that could arise.

It also lets you spell out things like copyright ownership and such which you likely won't have arise in most client to customer interactions; especially if you're dealing with the general public.

Ooo.. Definitely agree. When I was getting married, our photographer dealt with us mostly by email regarding questions and whatnot prior to us signing a contract. Then, when it was ready to agree to the contract and pay, the contract was there with all of our requests and all of her conditions. Black and white.

It was nice dealing with that, as opposed to having to go through emails and emails to find an answer that was easily available in a single document.

 

[Overread]

Yep it makes for a quick single document to review all that was agreed, plus anything that got mixed up in the emails can be sorted out. Otherwise you might spend an hour or more going though emails finding the one where you agreed to do something that you failed to do.

If you're just doing family portraits chances are contracts are a short formality mostly dealing with copyright and such legal aspects so you might not need to make a new one up for each client even if they are asking for different things; for a complex event like a wedding (which is also financially and emotionally charged) a contract is there as a safety barrier for all parties involved.

 

[imagemaker46]

This is why I don't do weddings. It is most true that people assume that every time a camera is pointed the photographer is shooting gems, or even shooting at all. I look though the camera and wait for moments to happen, and a lot of the time they don't, so no images were shot. People just don't realize this.

I have worked with other clients that want to see everything, and sometimes they are ok with the words, "I gave you all the best images" Other times they still want to see more, at that point I just tell them I have deleted all the images that don't show them with the best smiles, eyes are closed, but I do try and give them enough examples as to why they haven't received more.

It's frustrating when clients keep pushing for more, that just isn't there.

 

[Austin Greene]

My process is as follows for a basic, single-person portrait session:

1. Do the shoot.
2. After the shoot, run through all the photos on-camera with client. Have them pick out one or two of their favorites from each pose/locations. Protect them, then delete all the others in view of the client. All that remains are the ones the client is already happy with, and they are fully aware that there are no other images available.
3. Go home and pick my favorites from the ones they picked as their favorites, and edit them.

All this is under the preface that the client understands they will be receiving a set number of images from the start of the shoot. We agree on that number, and the price, before ever even meeting.

I've yet to have an issue.