Wedding shots, retouch or not?

[Hair Bear]

I use that style with furniture as well, when i can't stand the sight of the piece I have done enough rubbing and restoring!

 

[Rusty_Tripod]

It is my belief that if I have to do major edits such were done in the earlier posts here, my comment to myself is that I have not done my job. If this is the only decent shot of the bride's dress and the only decent photo of the bride with her father, and I blew it, I suck it up and toss the photos.

I could easily crop the father in the second image and capture his expression for some kind of insert or vignette. Any other cropping I might do would have the images in shreds in the trash can.

Clearly the dress was not in a spot to enhance ist beauty. As I said before, move it or ignore it. I do not know why Hair Bear is so determined believe in miracles. She says it "could have been better" , but it is too late now.

Rusty Tripod

 

[mysteryscribe]

Sometimes you just have to suck it up and make do my friend. Back in the day, I put images in an album I wasn't thrilled with cause nobody but me knew they were awful. People who are not photographers don't really know. Or at least they didn't used to know maybe they do now with all the talk going around, but I doubt it.

If the edited version of the dress was the only version there was, mommie might well buy it and be glad to get it. Sometimes we forget we are not the customer.

 

[Rusty_Tripod]

Mysteryscribe you have a point. Sometimes there is just no way out except to do better next time.

Rusty Tripod

 

[mysteryscribe]

Exactly, learn from your mistakes and try to prevent them. Nothing like having a camera slip off flash sync in the middle of a wedding to made you think twice about using that camera again.... That is with film not digital. With film you find out when you get home. Talk about a sinking feeling.

But the other great teacher with film you dont have with digital is this. If you are selling pictures ala cart, and you shoot a picture of the dress ten times and nobody is willing to buy it, it is very unlikely that you will shoot it twenty. Not picking on the dress just saying.

I used to get all these stupid bridesmaids coming up with every dumb shot they ever heard off. I would smile shoot it the best I could knowing all along it was a waste of my time. Most of the time it was. But one I could never figure out that I always sold, was a picture of the stupid cake. I mean it is there when they cut it, it is there when they shove it in each other's mouth, but they have to have a virgin picture of it. Just one of those girl things I guess. My cake is bigger than yours kind of thing.

 

[Hair Bear]

Rusty

1 she is a he, get my gender right when riding rough shot on my pictures

2 my post did not ask for your comment on 'if the picture was good or not' it asked about how much you retouch

3 you have stated a least twice now its not a keeper, thank you move on. I don't agree with you with the father bride shot, it captures a moment. Its not a great shot buy hay it's what was happening. It was small room with no time to be moving all the furntiure out and setting up studio lighting in order to get the perfect shots you would have got. I'm still learning

4 What is the difference between retouching to make the shot and vignette?. You say don't 'deconstruct reality' How was the vign in the original shot? and surly if your adding a ving then your retouching in a way to hide or mask something. But you don't do this because you would have done it all in the camera?

 

[LaFoto]

Hair Bear, I fear you will always have the pros and the cons on matters such as this. Some are purists with regards to the technicality of taking a photo, and some say "In the end it is only the image that counts".

I lean towards the latter, though, like all of us (I assume) I TRY to get my photos as right as possible in-camera. But - it does not always work. And sometimes a bit of pp is necessary.

I like how you just made the room a little longer so the dining room would no longer show and be distracting from this lovely scene, which lives from other things but a true-to-life represenation of reality at that particular moment in time.

Sometimes all you can do in the moment of pushing the button is realise "NOW!" and you take the photo, or else the moment would have gone forever. Considerations on composition or optimum settings sometimes have to come later.*

And no one is to believe that in the "good olde days of film only" such manipulations were NOT being done, only was it much, much, much harder to do them and you had to know your craft 1000% better than today with digital photography. But such things WERE done in the darkroom, and there is no denying that.

Only because it is easier to bring about the best in a photo today, with all our digital means, and can therefore be done by more people, does not mean it is suddenly BAD to do it. If it serves the photo, then use the tools, by all means.

Keep in mind: these things have been done in the darkrooms for decades!

(*This does NOT mean: throw every piece of knowledge on how to take a good photograph over board, happily snap away and "make the photo" later!!! No! It does NOT mean THAT! You all know that, don't you?)

 

[Hair Bear]

Hair Bear, I fear you will always have the pros and the cons on matters such as this. Some are purists with regards to the technicality of taking a photo, and some say "In the end it is only the image that counts".

I lean towards the latter, though, like all of us (I assume) I TRY to get my photos as right as possible in-camera. But - it does not always work. And sometimes a bit of pp is necessary.

I like how you just made the room a little longer so the dining room would no longer show and be distracting from this lovely scene, which lives from other things but a true-to-life represenation of reality at that particular moment in time.

Sometimes all you can do in the moment of pushing the button is realise "NOW!" and you take the photo, or else the moment would have gone forever. Considerations on composition or optimum settings sometimes have to come later.*

And no one is to believe that in the "good olde days of film only" such manipulations were NOT being done, only was it much, much, much harder to do them and you had to know your craft 1000% better than today with digital photography. But such things WERE done in the darkroom, and there is no denying that.

Only because it is easier to bring about the best in a photo today, with all our digital means, and can therefore be done by more people, does not mean it is suddenly BAD to do it. If it serves the photo, then use the tools, by all means.

Keep in mind: these things have been done in the darkrooms for decades!

(*This does NOT mean: throw every piece of knowledge on how to take a good photograph over board, happily snap away and "make the photo" later!!! No! It does NOT mean THAT! You all know that, don't you?)

Agree with all of that LaFoto

 

[Christie Photo]

Personally, I prefer to crop rather than deconstruct reality.

Rusty Tripod

Deconstruct reality? Hmm. That's never been a concern of mine... or any of my brides. In fact, I'd BETTER deconstuct (it's a fun word to use) or I'd be out on my ear.

Pete

 

[bowronfam3]

I have to say, that I find it amusing that Rusty has so much to say about photography, yet....he's not posted any photos for our review?? C'mon purist...let's see 'em!!!!! LOL!

 

[Hair Bear]

Your being called out Rusty and I'm still waiting to see your crop suggestion as well

 

[dgs]

I have to say, that I find it amusing that Rusty has so much to say about photography, yet....he's not posted any photos for our review?? C'mon purist...let's see 'em!!!!! LOL!

__________________

*chuckle* Just make sure you don't edit them, Bo!

 

[Rusty_Tripod]

I am not going to take the bait. I don't post for ego or critique. I post for my own whims and pleasure, and I tend to be my own worst enemy when it comes to the self-critique. I know crap when I see it, and I know when I am fighting a losing battle to save a print that should be dumped. I have enough of both.

I shoot film, process and print my own black and white. This fact, along with the fact that I do it around a schedule as a school teacher (which does limit one's free time) affects my posts. I have not got it down to a level of satisfaction. I sponsor a photo club at school. There is not quest for fame in my interest.

When I upload images, I have a specific audience in mind. Thus, any feedback is evaluated in relation to my intent. I do not post for kudos or critiques. Should I eventually chose to do so, I will be well aware of what might come my way.

I often shoot with friends and/or a local group. I value their input and learn from them. When I can fit in another class to work on darkroom skills, I will. I have no expectation of earning money from my work. That is not an issue with me. I enjoy the pleasures and the frustrations of photography. Call me a purist, if you will but I simply no fan of the machine-gun digital shooter and the Photoshop mock-up artist.

Finally, because I am older, I have learned to reflect. Whenever I have been in a position such as Hair B... has been, and I have become equally defensive, I have taken my defensiveness as a red flag that something is out of whack and not proportional to common sense or reality. When I figure that out, I am them able to look at my work in a different light and either find a new way to resolve the problem or accept the advice of the many and trash it. Sometimes, I recognize that I just have to let go.

Rusty Tripod

 

[Christie Photo]

I am not going to take the bait.

Good for you!

Pete

 

[Hair Bear]

I am not going to take the bait. I don't post for ego or critique. I post for my own whims and pleasure, and I tend to be my own worst enemy when it comes to the self-critique. I know crap when I see it, and I know when I am fighting a losing battle to save a print that should be dumped. I have enough of both.

I shoot film, process and print my own black and white. This fact, along with the fact that I do it around a schedule as a school teacher (which does limit one's free time) affects my posts. I have not got it down to a level of satisfaction. I sponsor a photo club at school. There is not quest for fame in my interest.

When I upload images, I have a specific audience in mind. Thus, any feedback is evaluated in relation to my intent. I do not post for kudos or critiques. Should I eventually chose to do so, I will be well aware of what might come my way.

I often shoot with friends and/or a local group. I value their input and learn from them. When I can fit in another class to work on darkroom skills, I will. I have no expectation of earning money from my work. That is not an issue with me. I enjoy the pleasures and the frustrations of photography. Call me a purist, if you will but I simply no fan of the machine-gun digital shooter and the Photoshop mock-up artist.

Finally, because I am older, I have learned to reflect. Whenever I have been in a position such as Hair B... has been, and I have become equally defensive, I have taken my defensiveness as a red flag that something is out of whack and not proportional to common sense or reality. When I figure that out, I am them able to look at my work in a different light and either find a new way to resolve the problem or accept the advice of the many and trash it. Sometimes, I recognize that I just have to let go.

Rusty Tripod

Thats all cool and basically justifies your own actions to yourself. If this is how your work with your school kids as a method to encourage and develop their skills then i wish you, and more importantly them, all the best.

Had I posted in the 'critique this picture section' then your feed back or thoughts would have been welcome if they were constructive. If you, as you just have, suggested it was crap, then I might be a little defensive about that.

This isn't the feedback section or feedback request it was a how much do you retouch question.

Now in relation to your input you have stated you could easily crop one of the images and make it better. I have asked you to show this whilst keeping the aspect ratio of the shot so it matches others - still waiting.

I didn't ask you anywhere about your thoughts on digital v film and frankly that shot would be the same if shot it on film. Its taken at a moment in time with no time to re adjust the room or the people.

I also didn't ask for a break down of your time and why you can and can't do things.

I'm sorry to be so blunt with you but it appears that that is how you deal with others so should appreciate my directness.