Weddings... I don't get it.

[RMThompson]

As is usual, you fail to understand what is being said.
He was not being used as a 'bad' example of anything.
And I did not say that Photography was a 'higher calling' than being a business man. Only that if you are learning to be a photographer then that is what you learn to do.
In the same way that if you are doing Business Studies you are not expected to learn how to be a chef.

If you want to critique my posts then just say and I will put them in the appropriate forum. But then I will take that as being permission to award you the same treatment.

Try taking your own advice.
I did not say there was anything wrong with service providers, nor even suggest it.
I would say that you might think a little before making personal attacks on people for things they haven't said. But I suspect you wouldn't listen.

You said "The guy was supposed to be one of the best in his field - and he was cr*p."

To me, that insinuates that one of the best wedding photogs is crap.

Furthemore, you then said that even if he does his job well he is nothing more than a service provider. Again, arrogance rears it's ugly head.

 

[RMThompson]

Sorry if you felt like I was disrespecting professional wedding photographers... that certainly wasn't my intent.

I respect your opinion and accept your apology. I do understand where you are coming from, and I suspect you know where I am now as well!

 

[hawee99]

From what I can tell, the original question was why do so many newbies want to shoot weddings? I am a newbie and I want to shoot Weddings really bad. But I don't have a huge interest in Weddings at all. However, I feel it will give me a great opportunity to learn my camera and learn about all the equipment. And there are alot of Weddings around so I think that is why it catches the immediate eyes of a newbie. There a tons of people I know and their friends are always getting married. What a good opportunity for me to practice with my camera. I will do my absolute best to make their pictures what they expect. And it's nice to get instant feedback from the people. Arguing about it is stupid if you ask me. It does suck to have someone "newbies", take away business of the "pros", but as Big Mike said, that's perfectly fair. I guess the pros were newbies once to. Imagine that. I would rather shoot Nature BY FAR. but for know I'll take what I can get. What a funny post to read. ahahahahahahahaha :hug::

 

[JIP]

Wow!!! I don't even know what to answer. Personally I enjoy shooting weddings for many reasons. Also as some people here are implying it does take alot of skill to shoot a wedding properly and that is the keyword. I think alot of noobs want to shoot weddings for alot of reasons one of wich I think is they think it is easy money and is not a challenge and any of them that actually do them change their mind after the first one. Oh yeah and Hertz I'm not sure what great artistic form of high art photography you do right now and I am sure what I am about to say does not apply to you so don't take this personally but, when I was in school I knew alot of people who had the same attitude as you. They thought wedding photography (even though they never did it) was "beneath them" and all I can say is there is no lack for laborers where I live. I do think this thread is getting very condescending to alot of peple I'm not sure why you (you know who I mean) can't let peole enjoy what they do. I know we all can't all be well respected artists with photography but some of us do take pride in and enjoy wedding photography and I don't think it's right to dis-respect peope for what they do. I guess I'm rambling a little here but my head is spinning after reading this thread and I really can't get all my thoughts straight.

 

[smyth]

Sorry, I disagree. If you are learning to be a photographer, as your job, and by job I mean bring in money, you'd better have at least some business knowledge... how else are you going to make money? Your work is'nt going to sell itself.

 

[craig]

I am not surprised that this thread runs a little on the vicious side. We seem to be forgetting that photography is a beautiful art form. If you got burned out on weddings; so be it. I have been there (not weddings) and can relate hours of stories. Took me three years of suffering before I understood that my commercial work is going to take 110%. Never put down a particular aspect of photography.

Love & Bass

 

[crownlaurel]

I have a question for those of you who actually did do wedding photography. I'm just curious... How many years of experience did you have before you shot your first wedding? Did you have all high end equipment before your first wedding? If so how long did it take to pay it off? What formal photography training did you have before your first wedding?

No one in my immediate (and much of my extended) family had a professional photographer at our weddings. If it hadn't been for my aunt and my step grandmother, neither of whom had anything more than a 35mm film camera (digital was not even heard of then by most of us), I wouldn't have had pictures of my wedding. I gave the same favor to my dad and a young couple in our church who had to cancel all their "big wedding" dreams and get married in a little country church with puke green carpet. I had digital so I got to take hundreds of photos and I got to get better angles and when I handed the brides their disks of 4X6 crops, they were so happy. Neither of them was going to hire a photographer. My point and shoot and lack of experience didn't get in anyone's way and my price didn't beat any competition. I did it for free and it made the difference between no pictures and set of memories. It wasn't a choice between the $1500 base package of someone with the big guns or my free pictures...if they'd had the money to pay for the big guns, I wouldn't have even offered.

For years I have asked "real photographers" questions and gotten brushed off. Not one has has offered any advice or tips. One wanted my children to model for him but wasn't willing to show me the ropes. I asked another about his camera and got a snotty answer. And to my knowledge, none of those had formal photography training.

Now, as a "newbie with an entry level dSLR" I'd love to go into wedding photography...but I never said I wanted to do it with my entry level dSLR and I never said I was applying for my tax ID tomorrow. I think sometimes when a seasoned photographer hears "I want to go into that" they automatically assume you mean "right now." That's not always true. In my case it may never be true. I get inquiries for taking people's kids' pictures and so far I haven't accepted any. They don't ask because I have a "big camera." (which I don't...I have the smallest dSLR I've seen, but they asked long before I got it). They ask because they've seen my pictures of baptisms taken from behind the baptistry and they've seen my pictures of my kids and of the free weddings I did. What they don't see is that it takes me hundreds of pictures to get one or two I'm satisfied with. Until that number is more on my side (and it is going to require not only more experience but better equipment as well), I have no plans for setting up shop...but I'd still "love" to do it.

I'd also love to go sky diving, but you don't see me out renting a plane and buying my parachute just yet...because you see I am petrified of heights. So although I'd love to do it, it's not in my immediate future.

 

[ERS1121]

I have read a lot of complaints about noob’s are coming in and under-cutting the pro’s prices, face it guys that is a part of any business. And like it or not, there is a big demand for what I’ll call budget wedding photography.
Unlike in days past, today not every couple is able or even willing to spend tens of thousands of dollars on a big wedding. (I was a guest at one this past weekend, they didn’t get much for 12,000.00) I don’t do a lot of weddings, but most of them are for those in the low budget category. I do believe that no matter what you financial situation every couple deserves quality photos of their big day.
For those that I do shoot, I meet with the couple at least twice to see exactly what they want. And to get a good feel for their personalities. I consider myself a good judge of people, and I try to deal with people not likely to suffer a meltdown under the wedding day stress. So far I’ve been lucky.
I usually do the ceremony and the formal shots, and then Uncles Tom, Dick and Harry with their shiny new DSL’s handle the reception. Some couples don’t even want wedding albums anymore, they want the images on a disc then they upload them to a digital picture frame, creating a permanent slide show.
I have had couples ask about doing a big wedding, and they had the money to pay for it too, those I do refer off to the full-time pros. I do know my limits, it’s not about my ability, or about the money, I’m pretty sure that I could do it, am I positive that I could give every detail the attention it deserves, no!
Like it or not I think that the low budget work is here to stay, and will probably be a growing trend. I also believe that there is more that enough work out there for everyone, some just may have to work a bit harder to get it.

 

[jstuedle]

Sorry, I disagree. If you are learning to be a photographer, as your job, and by job I mean bring in money, you'd better have at least some business knowledge... how else are you going to make money? Your work is'nt going to sell itself.

I am a firm believer that if you are n school studying photography, you also should study Business Management. I really don't think it would hurt to make that your major if you really have a fire in your belly for photography. That fire will carry you through, the management degree will enable you to be profitable at it.

 

[holga girl]

i will say this...

i enjoy shooting weddings. yes, it is a long day, the people are not always in the best of moods, nothing goes as planned, and it requires a lot of work on my part. but, it is also fun. you get to meet a wide variety of people, , learn about different cultures, and share in one of the most important days of their lives. i think that is neat.

as far as weddings being beneath you... i have this to say.... i have done portrait, studio, fine art, product and nature photography in addition to weddings. of these, weddings have the most difficult shooting conditions, the largest time crunch, & the absolute that there is no 'do over'.

if anything, i think it takes a special kind of person to work under that sort of pressure, in those conditions, for clients that have the highest of expectations, and still yeild fabulous results. it takes skill.

that being said, lets go back to the OP's origional question. "why are so many newbies attracted to wedding photography?" who knows?...the money, the feeling of playing an important role in someones life?

i will tell you why i chose wedding photography when i started 6 years ago... because it was what i saw as an easy medium to break into. i didn't know where to start with my photography on a professional level. so, i started assisting for wedding photographers. it was that simple. if i hated it, i would have moved on, but i like it, and i plan to do it for sometime now.

so hopefully that helps answer why newbies want to do weddings. those of you who shoot weddings, why did you start? be honest. i think the true question of this post was not to belittle the wedding photographer, but to find out why one of the most difficult jobs a photographer can take on seems to have the most appeal.

 

[newrmdmike]

if hertz is questioning the business part of photography then he must not make much money with it(or not be in business for himself or a small co). ask any full time pro that does weddings, sports, or ANYTHING, especially the freelance guys and they will tell you when they are home they are on the phone. or are working on arranging their next work, marketing themselves etc.

while some work falls into your lap you certainly can't rely on that for your income.


there are business men in photography, and their are photographers in business. either way it takes both to be successful

 

[jstuedle]

RE: Crown and Ed,
I don't think we "retired" pro wedding shooters are complaining about the family member who shoots a relatives wedding on the cheap. Or the startup that thinks he can offer a reasonable priced wedding on CD. Those are facts of the business these days. I believe the voices heard are in awe of the number of "Gee I just got a camera, now I too can become a millionaire." To do a wedding right, it's more than show up, shoot for an hour, had them a CD and collect $10,000.00. It boggles the mind the number of get rich quickies out there that see dollar signs when the pick up that brand new and shiny wal-mart special. But, my complaints revolved around the drudgery I felt doing them. The abuse I endured as a young professional in a ritzy neighborhood being treated as a doormat was unbelievable. If I were to go into it today I would have more experience dealing with panicking brides and abusive mothers. And I would choose a different market. Not an upscale neighborhood of jewelers, lawyers and doctors that felt they did you a favor by allowing you to attend a wedding of there little princess. It was entertaining after being treated like a servant, meeting the family to view the proofs. Payback time. I think that was already mentioned in another thread. But, been there, done that. Bought the tee shirt and ain't go'in back. I now enjoy my craft, I don't wish to "work" it ever again.

 

[RMThompson]

After calming down a bit I thought I would feel different, but I don't. I feel like several people were talking down to us wedding photographers, and especially us "Budget Wedding Photographers."

Listen, I am in the same boat as many people. I never asked to get started professionally doing photography at all. Someone asked me to do pictures for her, to make a calendar for her boyfriend. I did, with my Canon A610 PNS, I shared the shots, and next thing I new I was being inudated with requests from friends and family and friends of friends... etc. That's when I came to the forum. I learned SO much from you guys, and bought my own entry level DSLR, a Nikon D50, and I shoot more now then ever. I set up an account on Model Mayhem, and I get requests to shoot all the time. I don't have fancy equipment, and I know I still have stuff to learn, but i don't charge a great amount either, just enough to cover my time. Most model shots are like 50 - 75 dollars, and the first wedding I did was under $500.

Sunday I am meeting with a Bride-To-Be who happens to be a model I worked with in the past as well, she contacted me and asked my rates. She is having a small ceremony, and she asked if I could do it, since they couldn't afford even $1000 for the smallest package from a "big-time" pro.

It leads me to believe that there is a HUGE call for a middle range, budget wedding/event photographer. Not everyone HAS the 2k + needed for a decent wedding photog, and for many people, including me when i got married, this means no professional shots.

So what if, and this is STILL a What If right now, someone like me, still learning their craft, without the huge overhead, can offer some decent shots at a decent price? What's WRONG with that? It allows me to build my portfolio, they get their money's worth of photos, and everyone is happy.

The arrogance against this practice is what has kept me away from here for awhile. It seems though, from the support on the last 5 or so posters, that I am not alone and that's good.

I am NOT pretending that equipment/experience are not a requirement for wedding photography, but people here over-blow what you need. When iw as told what I would need, it was like a D200, a backup D200, 5 lenses minimum, 3 flashses, 10gigs of space, blah blah blah... and the simple fact is you DON'T need all that. Would it be NICE to have all that, yes, but you DON'T need it. Really.

 

[Tyson]

I have been away for a few weeks but I have to say I am sorry to have missed this ongoing saga!

WOW It makes me want to get married again!! Any volunteers?

 

[Christie Photo]

ask any full time pro that does weddings, sports, or ANYTHING,...

I sometimes joke that I'll take ANYTHING that comes along... I'd even paint your garage. But seriously....

there are business men in photography, and their are photographers in business. either way it takes both to be successful

Good point, Mike. Back in the day when I was active in the PPA, I saw just as many Masters go out of business just as quickly as rookies.

As for the original question, so many start-ups want to do weddings for the same reason as some other businesses like... oh... carpet layers, and painters. The start-up cost is low and you don't need a building. I did my first wedding with a 35mm, one lens, and flash bulbs. I didn't need a studio. I loved making photographs so much it seemed like free money.

But Hertz is right... the vast majority of wedding photography is no more than providing a service. It's simply a matter of deciding if you agree to provide that service. Some of us choose to, and some of us don't. And those of us that do.... some enjoy it, others tolerate it.

Pete