What makes Leicas so collectible?

[Mitica100]

well... i guess I'm trying to understand the fascination that people have with these things. And i know i'll never get a real (or at least satisfactory) answer to that question, it just feels to me like you pay more and get less. And i know to some of you, thats absolutely not true, so please don't write back arguing that. I'm wrong , you're wrong. EVERYONE is wrong to each other in some way... i just dont get it

You can't understand it until you actually hold a Leica in your hands, loaded with film and go at it. I didn't, until I had the chance to buy my first Leica (I own three). As to paying more and getting less, that depends on the photographer, not the camera itself. I've seen great pictures taken with crappy cameras and vice-versa.

And I'm not trying to prove anyone wrong, by any means. Everyone here is entitled to his/her opinion. You believe what you may, we're simply trying to answer the question about the Leica fascination. I'm pretty sure you're fascinated by X, Y, Z camera, perhaps a DSLR. Nothing wrong with that, works for you, makes you happy. Same here in my case, with a Leica. BTW, I shoot with other "pay more get less" film cameras like Hasselblad, Linhoff 4x5, and others, they do fascinate me in many ways, but none like a Leica.

 

[shorty6049]

well, it just reminds me of the macbook air or something. Are you paying for the brand, or is it ACTUALLY worth the huge price tag? I really dont think the mac book air is worth the price. I havent tried a leica, but thats how i have always felt about them. They have very good glass, yes. but then why is the body so expensive? I would really like to try a leica, because its not that i don't WANT to believe that they're as great as everyone says they are, its that on paper, they just look like another camera. So if one of you Leica users out there wants to send me your camera, i'll GLADLY try it out and let you know my final opinion on it ;-)

 

[usayit]

well, it just reminds me of the macbook air or something. Are you paying for the brand, or is it ACTUALLY worth the huge price tag?

Mac book and electronic gadgets are driven by completely different marketing pressures. Their pricing is generally based on being at the edge of technology and offering something that no other brand is currently offering. These products are not celebrated for their timeless classic designs and quality but for their ability to push technology another step. Once that step has been taken.. thats it... on to the next iteration.

The mac book air IS going head to head with UMPCs. It was never meant to compete against the value of the MacBook nor the professional MacBook Pro. If you want an ultra portable machine running Mac OS X, there is no other competitor. This is no different from the iPod that offered the next step in portable music... and the Iphone that offered innovations in sleek design and UI . Products that raise the bar...

 

[usayit]

but then why is the body so expensive?

One thing the marketing guys have always reminded me is that the cost of a particular good or service has almost nothing to do with the cost of providing those goods or services. It has everything to do with maximizing profits. If you can sell a 10 cent sheet of paper printed with a famous name for $100 dollars then all the better. It doesn't mean that that sheet of paper will hold written word any better than a plain sheet of paper.

Now I'm not saying that Leica is just a plain overpriced camera... I'm simply stating that sticker price is an awful indicator on the quality or performance of a product.

Leica is a small German company with a long tradition in low volume, high quality products. THe idea is that the product itself should sell itself. Traditional European design and business has always gone a different path from the American form of business. American business is all about selling a large quantity of a product at an affordable price. This is in part the root of the cost of Leica products relative to other products. Oh and I said "relateive to other products"..... how many products out there are "leica like" or competitors to Leica?? NOT many.. to almost zero. This is the another reason for the cost of Leica.


btw. the recent rise in Leica prices is in part the falling dollar...

 

[AndrewG]

Reasons for collecting Leica? Well, historically, the Leica is important; it was the first camera designed to use 35mm film and was originally conceived by its inventor Oscar Barnack as a test bed for movie 35mm film stock.
Other reasons? Pick one up; the engineering and build quality are superlative and the image quality from Leitz lenses has a breathtaking, luminous quality that DSLR's can only dream about.
I have owned two, the M6TTL and M7. Cash crises forced me to sell both with much regret.

 

[Mitica100]

Reasons for collecting Leica? Well, historically, the Leica is important; it was the first camera designed to use 35mm film and was originally conceived by its inventor Oscar Barnack as a test bed for movie 35mm film stock.
Other reasons? Pick one up; the engineering and build quality are superlative and the image quality from Leitz lenses has a breathtaking, luminous quality that DSLR's can only dream about.
I have owned two, the M6TTL and M7. Cash crises forced me to sell both with much regret.

That pretty much says it! Try selling a DSLR in about 20 years, you'll see how much (or how little) you get for it. Leica distinguishes itself from other makers by the fact that it is both a collector's dream and a user's dream.

 

[Helen B]

Other reasons? Pick one up; the engineering and build quality are superlative and the image quality from Leitz lenses has a breathtaking, luminous quality that DSLR's can only dream about.

Leica lenses aren't so bad either.

Best,
Helen

 

[usayit]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned (and they deserve to be) are the numerous (now famous) journalists/photographers that picked up a Leica throughout the years and documented history. If it wasn't for them... things would have been different for Leica (Leitz Camera).

How many Magnum photographers used the Leica rangefinder?


My only complaint against Leica's business is that their marketing has placed their equipment in the realm of "boutique" like products that doctors/lawyers/etc shoot. It wasn't suppose to cameras that you treat like a rolex and collect.. they were suppose to be the workhorse camera of quality.

 

[Senor Hound]

My only complaint against Leica's business is that their marketing has placed their equipment in the realm of "boutique" like products that doctors/lawyers/etc shoot. It wasn't suppose to cameras that you treat like a rolex and collect.. they were suppose to be the workhorse camera of quality.

I second that. Where I work there are a lot of doctors and lawyers and such, and I see a lot of Leicas accordingly. For them ts a status symbol, like a Mont Blanc pen, a Rolex watch, etc.

 

[shorty6049]

Thats basically where my first comment stemmed from. so i third(?) that.

 

[usayit]

Thats basically where my first comment stemmed from. so i third(?) that.

but it was just a recent thing.... It started with the M6 classic when Leica made dozens of "commemorative" edition cameras like the Historica, Royal Danish Wedding, Gold Thailand, Platinum Bruckner, Jaguar XK 50, etc... (puke).

My M6 Titanium, for example, seems to be a complete disconnect between the engineers that designed it and those that marketed it. The M6 Titanium was created to bring to market a finish that was significantly more durable than chrome and MUCH more durable than black paint. Mine does not show a single scratch... it is extremely scratch resistant (but will still dent as the titanium is a finish.. a later M7 titanium was actually made of a solid piece of Titanium). I look at it and except for wear on the body covering, it looks brand new... I purchased it used (i am the 3rd owner) and the previous owner mentioned that the camera was not "babied". The finish brings a very rugged finish to a camera begging to be used.... it should have been marketed as such. Unfortunately, the camera was marketed as if Titanium was a luxury rather than a design of practicality. It completely fell out of favor with Leica shooters that actually use the camera and wanted to distance themselves from the stigma of the rich "collectors". It wasn't Leica's bigger sellers.


Despite the marketing snafu... as I said... the price of a product is often not an indicator of anything other than profit margins. The M6 is still a quality product that holds up to the Leica name. There isn't anything out there that compares....

Other's I have had this discussion with say that this marketing behavior was out of sheer need to survive. Leica (the company) is EXTREMELY tiny compared to the bigger folks like Nikon and Canon. They must generate revenue to keep the R&D pipeline moving... or simply go out of business. For this revenue, rather than go head to head with Nikon, Minolta, Canon etc... they appealed to the more wealthy customer....

This is very similar to Ferrari's story. Ferrari is most well known on the track producing extremely high performing race cars. Unfortunately, the company cannot just survive on their racing program.. they still need to generate revenue in order to survive. I surmise they could have attempted to market "reasonable" priced vehicles to go head to head with the Chevy Corvette and other cars in that price range but they would be at a disadvantage due to their size. Instead, Ferrari (just like Leica) appealed to the wealthy customers where they can build a name and to generate revenue. Just like Leica, Ferrari's production cars are extremely expensive but it doesn't mean that they do not perform. The high end Corvette can keep up (even beat) a production Ferrari at a fraction of the cost... but it doesn't mean (in Shorty's words) "less for more".

 

[AndrewG]

well... i guess I'm trying to understand the fascination that people have with these things. And i know i'll never get a real (or at least satisfactory) answer to that question, it just feels to me like you pay more and get less. And i know to some of you, thats absolutely not true, so please don't write back arguing that. I'm wrong , you're wrong. EVERYONE is wrong to each other in some way... i just dont get it

It really isn't that difficult to understand; if you understand superlative quality in a mechanical object where form and function are perfectly blended then you'll understand Leica. The lenses have few peers; take a look at the work of photographers who use these and you cannot fail to be impressed.
You don't get much diamond for your money either; a Rolex watch won't tell you the time in Lagos or feature a calculator but I prefer to wear mine over a Timex.
Quality trumps quantity-every time.

 

[dinodan]

Speaking of.....

Prices on new Leica stuff just went up 10% across the board (excluding the M8). IIRC, that's the 3rd time in less than a year! Sheesh..

A consequence of the tanking dollar, I suppose...

 

[reg]

Well, yeah the tanking dollar and the fact that Leicas aren't American made.

 

[AndrewG]

Well, yeah the tanking dollar and the fact that Leicas aren't American made.

...not much is these days!