Where is the community at TPF?

bigtwinky · Nov 18, 2009

Is it just me getting irritated, but has the last month or so seen a big increase in the amount of "drive by posters". You know the ones I'm talking about, they have 1 post and its them posting a link to their flickr or what not asking for CC. Not necessarily the ones with low post counts, everyone starts with a low post count. You can easily tell someone who will contribute vs someone who will not. I was looking at someone's back posts and their last 18 posts have been all about the threads that they started for CC, no comments or time spent commenting or discussing anything else. Thats a very selfish way to approach a community IMO. And before you say it, I know, I don't have to respond to that poster, its my choice, bla bla bla, but some chose to ignore and move on, others chose to try and discuss in hopes of change.

People don't seem to take the time to actually contribute to the forum and make the community better. I see the same half dozen people giving GOOD cc in posts, and props to all of you who do. And no, I don't consider "Nice job" good CC. I've been here for a little over a year, so maybe its just a regular cycle the forum goes through.

Personally, I'm getting a wee bit irritated by things like this and it makes me not want to take the time to post honest CC on images. I understand why some of the "old timers" don't frequent the beginner boards, but I would feel guilty not doing so as this is where I have posted and received some good CC from a few people.

I dunno, just ranting I guess.

PhotoXopher · Nov 18, 2009

I agree... I used to give my input a lot more but have stopped wasting my time lately because most of it was for people I thought were new and wanted some input rather than another hit to their Flickr account.

These days if I give my opinion on someone's work there has to be an example or 2 or 3 in the post itself.

Kpablo · Nov 18, 2009

Well...I'm a newb. I know nothing about photography, I plan on sticking around to learn a few things. I love forums, I'm part of Doberman Forums, Reptile Forums, Pit Bull forums, and now this forum. I find forums are the best way to learn because there are people willing to talk one on one. I don't plan on sharing my photos often, because, well, there embarrassing. I'm a bit sensitive and take criticism personal. I did add my blog to my signature because if someone wanted to take there own time to look at my photos they can, then critique them. But I am much too shy to go out and post photos all the time.

DennyCrane · Nov 18, 2009

It's not a completely bad thing and here's why- a forum needs more width than depth. That means a forum is better off with many threads with a few posts than fewer threads with lots of posts. Googleability is the reason. It's like being in the batting cage. The more pitches fired at you, the more opportunity there is for a home run. Every hit TPF gets from some random thread on a Google search is another opportunity to get a good member signed up. Sure, you'll get those "drive-bys" as you stated, but that's par for the course. You're building traffic to the site. And that also includes non-members... people who searched for an answer, found us, and then marked us as a favorite to sift through for information.

And of course, all that increases opportunities for people to click on the revenue-generating Google ads on every page. Every click-through, the site generates income.

So, we'll see the "Vote for my picture!" threads, the one-shot C&C posts, but in the meantime, we're building good memberships, too.

bigtwinky · Nov 18, 2009

I totally understand the need for the business side of the forum.

But as a community, getting 20 threads with 2 replies does not increase the depth of the community. After a while, when people manage to get beyond the shallow water of what the forum is and require deeper waters to progress, they won't find that here and that will make them move on to other forums or other ways to learn where they can get into that deep water.

So its a never ending cycle of newer posters. Good for the business, bad for the community.

I did a quick count of 42 people with over 5,000 posts. I looked at the names, and there are maybe 4-5 that randomly post these days, and maybe 1-2 that post more often, both of those being mods on the site.

I have to start hitting the lower parts of page 2 and page 3 to start seeing more names that I recognize as regular posters.

itznfb · Nov 18, 2009

A lot of people see a forum as a resource to get a questioned answered they aren't able to find on their own. The problem with that is they aren't familiar with forums and don't search the forum itself or don't search properly and ask a repetitive question which then in turn irritates long time members which then causes those members to flame the newcomer deterring them from returning to the forum.

I've joined a forum on topics I'm not familiar with to just get a quick answer.

Kpablo · Nov 18, 2009

itznfb said:
A lot of people see a forum as a resource to get a questioned answered they aren't able to find on their own. The problem with that is they aren't familiar with forums and don't search the forum itself or don't search properly and ask a repetitive question which then in turn irritates long time members which then causes those members to flame the newcomer deterring them from returning to the forum.

I've joined a forum on topics I'm not familiar with to just get a quick answer.

This happens in every forum. I've been a member of a Doberman forum for over a year, and it gets so repetive when the newbies ask the same question over and over and over, instead of doing a search.

The problem is, when people join a forum and don't have "forum experience" most newbies don't even know about the search function, even more so don't know how to use the search function. Sometimes, it's not a matter of laziness but ignorance.

Another thought, and I find this about other forums I'm a member of. People post photos to ooo and aww about without posting any real content on other threads. Why? Well, sometimes people just don't have the socialization skills, and don't know WHAT to say in other threads.

bigtwinky · Nov 18, 2009

itznfb said:
A lot of people see a forum as a resource to get a questioned answered they aren't able to find on their own. The problem with that is they aren't familiar with forums and don't search the forum itself or don't search properly and ask a repetitive question which then in turn irritates long time members which then causes those members to flame the newcomer deterring them from returning to the forum.

I've joined a forum on topics I'm not familiar with to just get a quick answer.

Good point. I guess its just not the way I do things. Most questions on TPF can be answered by googling or checking out back posts. So I guess its society being lazy and wanting an instant answer?

Is it that they tried to search and weren't able to find or really, just didn't give it a shot? How many times have there been the same question on the same page in the same forum by two different people? Where both threads end up giving similar answers?

Whats the solution... making better use of the search tool, making it more obvious, forcing people to search prior to posting, prior to submitting their post, give the user a list of matching topics,...?

No one likes to be flamed, and that will turn away some people. But people also don't like to have their question unanswered. But I guess if there is someone who will answer it, then its all good.

PhotoXopher · Nov 18, 2009

Funny you mention search...

I think people don't search because they'll get flamed for bringing a 6 month old thread back to life :lol:

New User:
Page 16 of the thread... I have this same problem but after reading 6 pages of arguments I couldn't find the answer, did anyone ever solve this?

Seasoned Member: Way to bring up an old flame war!

New User: Sorry.

New User Starts new thread.

Seasoned Member: This has been asked a million times, try doing a search!

Derrel · Nov 18, 2009

bigtwinky said:
Is it just me getting irritated, but has the last month or so seen a big increase in the amount of "drive by posters". >SNIP>
People don't seem to take the time to actually contribute to the forum and make the community better. I see the same half dozen people giving GOOD cc in posts, and props to all of you who do>SNIP>

Personally, I'm getting a wee bit irritated by things like this and it makes me not want to take the time to post honest CC on images. >SNIP

I dunno, just ranting I guess.

Well, now that you mention it, yesterday you brought this up,and I think you are 100% correct--LOTS more 1st-time signups with a request, or admonition to "come crit my work!" or "visit my Flickr site", from pro photogs, Flickr users galore, "hey,stop by here and tell me what I need to learn," etc. At ALL levels, from noob, enthusiast, MWAC, commercial pros--TPF has been bombarded with people posting here, asking for C&C, but not posting any photos--but instead only hot-linking to outside sites--often with the blatant, fairly obvious desire to build traffic. It is *that* type of behavior I find most reprehensible. It's a big time-waster,and those people do *nothing* but push good posts off the first few pages.

bigtwinky · Nov 18, 2009

N0YZE said:
Funny you mention search...

I think people don't search because they'll get flamed for bringing a 6 month old thread back to life

New User:
Page 16 of the thread... I have this same problem but after reading 6 pages of arguments I couldn't find the answer, did anyone ever solve this?

Seasoned Member: Way to bring up an old flame war!

New User: Sorry.

New User Starts new thread.

Seasoned Member: This has been asked a million times, try doing a search!

I've seen threads like this as well. One was bumped for no apparent reason than the person saying "me too".

Another was bumped with some actually added value, then someone who I consider more of a troll told them off, which was not right.

Both of those were requests for CC, one was about HDR I believe.

What I'm referring to in searching older threads are things like
- which tripod should I buy
- which telephoto lens is the best
- how do I HDR
- any recommendations on sites to sell my photos on
- sites to sell prints from
- bags to buy
...

bigtwinky · Nov 18, 2009

You know whats funny? I was thinking that this thread was probably already posted a while ago and already discussed. But I didn't do a backpost search to find it.

:lmao:

Ok... sorry. Back to this thread.

DennyCrane · Nov 18, 2009

The biggest problem I see here is the flame wars. A n00b comes in, makes a post, either asking a question or something else, and without warning, 2 or 3 people turn the thread into a flame war. This is what drives people away. Sure, some regulars giggle and make popcorn references, but it drives new people away. I'm not talking about a heated debate... that's healthy for a forum. It's shows people's passions on a subject. It's the personal attacks that have nothing to do with taking pictures that's the problem. It's a hostile environment. That is the lack of community.

This site lacks enough moderation of the posts. People involved in that behavior should have those posts deleted and told to take their fights to PMs.

itznfb · Nov 18, 2009

There are actually plug-ins for vbulletin that eliminate the search problem. I use them on my forums and they work about 99% of the time. I use an AJAX based plug-in; when you type something in the subject line of a new thread it starts an active search and searches threads based on what you're typing and displays similar threads and doesn't allow you type in the body field until the search results are finished.

Problem solved.

bigtwinky · Nov 18, 2009

DennyCrane said:
The biggest problem I see here is the flame wars. A n00b comes in, makes a post, either asking a question or something else, and without warning, 2 or 3 people turn the thread into a flame war. This is what drives people away. Sure, some regulars giggle and make popcorn references, but it drives new people away. I'm not talking about a heated debate... that's healthy for a forum. It's shows people's passions on a subject. It's the personal attacks that have nothing to do with taking pictures that's the problem. It's a hostile environment. That is the lack of community.

This site lacks enough moderation of the posts. People involved in that behavior should have those posts deleted and told to take their fights to PMs.

Do you have any specific references? I get what you are saying, but other than the erlll3 posts, I can't think of anything else. Feel free to PM if you dont want to post