White lines across film

Discussion in 'Film Discussion and Q & A' started by Bolle, Jul 27, 2010.

  1. Bolle
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    Bolle New Member

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    Hi there, I'm new to photography and have bought my first ever camera- a Minolta x570. The first roll of film came out pretty well, but a lot of the photos have a white line through them. Is this something on the film or to do with the way the camera winds on the film? I noticed when I took the film out the back panel was out of line, could this be the problem?

    Thanks for your help.
  2. LaFoto
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    LaFoto Just Corinna in real life Staff Member

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    It could be a scratch that put itself onto your film mechanically... but hey, I'm only guessing here.
    Welcome to ThePhotoForum, all the same!!! :D
  3. PJL
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    PJL New Member

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    Do you have an example? It might be a mechanical scratch. If it's more like a streak in some of the pictures, it could be a light leak. The camera could need a CLA treatment (cleaning, lubricating, adjustment), which in not unusual for older cameras, especially if they've been used rather than just sitting in a closet.
  4. Early
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    Early New Member

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    B&W film, or color? When you say back panel, are you talking about the plate that holds the film flat, or the door itself?

    The first thing you have to do is check the negatives. If it's b&w and showing a white line through the print, then there would be a black line through the negatives.
  5. Mike_E
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    Mike_E Well-Known Member

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    Welcome. :)

    You should also check to see if the foam around the back of the camera is in good shape. You could have light leaking from there.
  6. usayit
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    usayit Well-Known Member

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    Wouldn't a scratch in the film's substrate result in a black line on print?

    My guess is a light leak
  7. Josh66
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    Josh66 Well-Known Member

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    Scratches show up as white lines for me. Most dust does too. (I try to make sure it's dust free before I scan, but you can never get it all...)

    Scratched film:
    [​IMG]

    If you look at the big version, you can see it pretty clearly...
  8. Flash Harry
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    Flash Harry New Member

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    Light leaks tend not to make a line as such, it would be more helpful if an example was posted, however dust will give white spots and scratches/creases in film make lines, sometimes these scratches are from the processing equipment too, cheap snappysnaps overused and badly maintained processors have ruined many good shots for many people a black line would be from a scratch, especially a deep into the emulsion scratch, if I were you I'd inspect the negs, if theyre kinked/creased/scratched in uniformly similar positions on the negs I'd be either having the camera looked at thoroughly/buying a new model/changing who processes my negs. H

    ps. Before all you digital people start about the colour of scratches, I'm coming from a darkroom print in my evaluation here, not a scan
  9. Steve01
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    Steve01 New Member

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    Early asked if the scratch shows on the negatives.
    I'd like to know too.

    Dirt on the pressure plate will put a uniform scratch across the negatives.
  10. Derrel
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    Derrel Mr. Rain Cloud

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    Film can be scratched any number of places. Advancing through the cartridge's felt lips. At the pressure plate, or at the film gate aperture area. When being rewound, from either the felt lips, the pressure plate, or the aperture gate area. It can be scratched in the roller transport processing machine, or as it comes out of that machine...it can be scratched AS it is loading in the printer,but before the frames are printed...it can be scratched as it is being sleeved...you name it, film can be scratched at any place along the line...

    Film cartridges and cassettes that rattle around in a woman's purse, or in a car's change tray or back seat can pick up all sorts of lint and grit, over as long as a month or more...those rolls of film are opened, loaded and some of that junk gets in to the roller transport processing machine, and into the solutions...Labs that devellop "consumer" film from people who bring it in loose, and fish it out of their purses,pockets,and backpacks will usually give you back scratched negatives,more often than not.

    "Dip and dunk" processing is expensive and hard to find these days, but worth it. Roller transport developing usually, well, let's say "often" means the chances of scratches on the negs are pretty high.
  11. Josh66
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    Josh66 Well-Known Member

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    My camera is causing a scratch on pretty much every roll... I can't figure out what's doing it, but it's in the same place every time, so it has to be the camera. Sometimes it's not even there, other times it's really bad.

    If it's bad enough, yeah - you can see it on the negative. A scratch like the one I posted above would be very hard to see though.
  12. Derrel
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    Derrel Mr. Rain Cloud

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    Well, a film camera is a lot less complicated than a o||||||o, dude, so open the back and look around...is there a little pimple-like raised spot on the edges of the film aperture or "gate"????? Is there some adhesive on the pressure plate, you know the pressure plate on the back of the camera?

    Is the pressure plate flat? And clean? Or does it have an impact dent in it?

    Josh, dude...the cause of the scratch ought to be able to be found by Mr. Watson, without Sherlock Holmes's help...;) Open 'er up, have a look around..find the raised spot...correct the problem...
  13. Josh66
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    Josh66 Well-Known Member

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    I've looked everywhere (since I know where the scratch is, it's easy to know where to look), but I still can't find anything...

    I was thinking it might be happening during rewind, so I tried silent rewind (very slow) and high speed rewind. Scratches both times. I can't find a burr or speck of dirt anywhere.

    It must be inside where the film coils up or something. Somewhere that I can't see.

    Not sure if I really want to start taking the camera apart...

    edit
    I still have about 15 frames left on the roll that's in there. I'll probably finish that off today - I'll check it out again once it's empty.
  14. Derrel
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    Derrel Mr. Rain Cloud

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    And the scratch occurs "every time", as in every,single,stinkin' time??? Or is it as you also said, "sometimes it's not there". Are you using bulk film in reloadable,snap-top cartridges, or fresh rolls of factory film?

    Can you put a scratched film strip in,align it with the film guide rails, and determine where the scratch is located,and then use some reasoning power to locate the potential source of the scratching? What kind of camera are we talking about?
  15. Petraio Prime
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    Petraio Prime New Member

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    Without an example it's impossible to tell.
  16. Helen B
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    Helen B New Member

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    Can you tell which side the scratch is on?

    If you have a spare roll of unused film you could try a step-by-step scratch test. You are looking for scratches on the undeveloped film by looking along the surface of the film with light reflecting off it (end of film held to your eye, film held out towards light). Do the actions one stage at a time - wind it on one frame at a time onto the take-up spool. Carefully remove it. Check for the scratch. Put it back onto the take-up spool. Rewind. Remove from cassette through the end. Check again. This is a version of the standard scratch test used with movie cameras.

    Good luck,
    Helen
  17. Josh66
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    Josh66 Well-Known Member

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    It's on every roll, but it skips some frames. It's there every time, but inconsistently. Sometimes it's a really hard scratch, sometimes it's faint, and sometimes it's not even there.

    It's a 1N RS. I've tried just what you're saying - line the film up with the guide rails and look where the scratch is. There is a metal *thing* thats edge looks to be in the right spot (I can't think of what it's called right now, and I can't open the camera just yet.), but it is smooth and clean. No sharp edges anywhere on it.


    Hmm... I was trying to see if I had a picture of it... I found this - not what I'm talking about, but it aslo looks to be in the right place.

    [​IMG]

    See that thing on the left edge of the frame - where the film cartridge would go? That metal clip thing (looks like it just puts pressure on the cartridge). - See the little edge sticking out? That's right about where the scratch would be. I don't think that comes close to touching the film though... I'll check it out when it's empty.

    Just to make sure I'm looking in the right area ... the image on the film plane is upside down, right? The top of the image looking through the viewfinder is the bottom on the film...? Or would it be the same as what you see through the viewfinder?

    I posted an example a few posts up. I have more too...

    Just looked at the negative of the example I posted - the scratch is on the 'non-emulsion' (? - ...don't know the proper term for that side...) side. The side that would be facing the shutter.

    The emulsion side looks like it has rub marks or something on it, but I'm thinking that's normal...? Doesn't seem to be affecting anything, anyway...
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2010
  18. Helen B
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    Helen B New Member

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    Yes.
  19. Josh66
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    Josh66 Well-Known Member

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    A few more examples (click on them to see them bigger):

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    This one is exceptionally bad:
    [​IMG]
    ...Bad enough that it's even obvious at this small size.


    OK - the camera is empty now. I think I see what is causing the scratches. ...I can't believe I missed it before. I'll get some before & after pictures when I fix it.

    EDIT
    OK - It should be fixed now... I just loaded a roll of Ektar 100 - hopefully that comes out scratch free.

    Here's what I think the problem was:
    [​IMG]

    Fixed:
    [​IMG]

    At first I thought it might be that little piece with the two arrows on it (just to the left of where it says 'film'), but it's very smooth - nothing there that could scratch the film...
    [​IMG]
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2010
  20. Helen B
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    Helen B New Member

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    Josh,

    That corner is outside the image area. It's in line with the sprocket holes.

    Best,
    Helen

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