Who has seen ...

[Luminosity]

......'Bowling For Columbine ' ?

I rented it out on DVD and watched it tonight. :shock:

I glimpsed some of my aussie 'naivety' when I was in the U.S , just from some situations where I was relaxed and not worried but my american friends were...
example : walking back ( at night ) to our B&B motel on the Esplanade from Bourbon Street ,New Orleans ( 15-20 minute walk)... I took it for granted there was not much danger in that ( yet I am always ever-watchful , I dont take safety THAT much for granted ).Did the same thing in New York.
Apparently, you just dont walk at night lol.

Moore raised very good points and questions .. one in particular......

Western countries are exposed to , relatively , the same kind and same amount of violent media. We watch the same movies , listen to the same sorts of music etc etc.
We all have good access to firearms. ( well in Australia this changed a few years ago after we experienced a shooting spree at Port Arthur which ignited a "Gun buy back ' scheme....That was controversial amongst hunters etc , as you would expect....)
Yet the number of people killed by guns each year in the U.S is staggering compared to other western countries....
Australia was something like 63 a year.... England was around 68 or so ....
America = 1128 ( round abouts ) ! :shock:

Is it just a case of MORE people having guns ?

Why is this ? Its got me ,genuinely, wondering....:scratch:
Would like to hear some of your theories / thoughts on this .....

P.S When it all gets a lil too crazy for ya's there in the good ole U.S of A ... you are welcome to come lob at my place anytime

 

[Osmer_Toby]

P.S When it all gets a lil too crazy for ya's there in the good ole U.S of A ... you are welcome to come crash at my place anytime

i'm comin! ooooh oooooh, pick me! pick me!
:::raises hand wildly in air, like horseshack from welcome back cotter::::

heheh.
seriously though, i'm wondering if it's because we have more angry people??
that's my first reaction, but i'm gonna have to go off and think about this one...
i'll get back to ya...............

 

[Luminosity]

I edited so it read * ya can come LOB at my place * instead of crash , coz it just didnt SOUND right :LOL:
Ok Tobes , I'll let ya go off and have a thunk and all ... but your brain WILL be picked on this one !!!
Lol ya might have a point ... too many people feeling like unheard and 'invisible' citizens , repressed , up against a rock and a hard place ....? No sign of government reform to the point where the pres stops bombing other countries and starts to pay attention to the people that are hurting right in his own backyard ......? Sinking more funds into medical care and realistic programs for people of welfare is one place they might start...
I'm in no WAY saying that people such as the kids that were responsible for the Columbine shootings cant be held accountable for their own actions , they most definately CHOSE to murder ppl.....just wondering how much of a hand did outside influences/situations have in this and how much of it was just from their own basic nature.....
Whoever figures that out should bottle it , sell it then write the book on it , they'll be a squillionaire lol.

P.S Goes and makes the bunk bed ... *Hollers out * "Tobes ya want top or bottom bunk ?"

 

[MDowdey]

first of all in the united states, its entirely too easy to get a gun. you dont even have to wait anymore, and people pass guns around like its a kids toy.

secondly, the united states IS a state of angry pissed of people. we have grown pompous and shallow because we have lived our whole lives knowing that, military speaking, we are superior to every other opposing country. and that we take everything we have for granted.

ill tell ya lumi, if it gets any worse around here, im movin in with you!!! :evil:


md

 

[Luminosity]

Well hurry up and git ya ass down here so ya can knock me off my soapbox and we go paint the town purty colors and whatnot !!

Do you want bottom bunk or top .. Tobes hasnt dibs on either yet !?

 

[Sharkbait]

If it weren't for my parents and Kel's parents, I'd seriously consider trying to move to either England, Australia, or NZ. It's getting so that I just don't really like the American culture all that much anymore. As MD said, we are a country of shallow emotions, shallow entertainment, and road rage. It's very disheartening at times.

 

[Luminosity]

And stop and pick up Manda on the way !

 

[airgunr]

Americas no better or worse than any other place. You have to look at more than just numbers as they can be skewed any way you want. You might also look at the total population of each country.

Big citys anywhere in the world are pretty much the same. I grew up in Chicago and have traveled extensively around the U.S. and the world. The only continents I haven't been to are Africa and Antartica. The only place I've ever been exposed to crime was on my last trip to Spain. I got robbed in Barcelona.

I don't hold that against Spain. There are a**holes all over the world. You just need to use common sense, if your walking along in Hong Kong, New York, New Orleans, Paris, Sydney, (pick a city) and you look down a street and go, "boy that doesn't look good", then don't go down there. All citys I've been to have "Bad" areas that you should stay out of.

I think one of the major factors in the pervasivness of crime in the U.S. and around the world is the "War on Drugs". There is SO MUCH MONEY in it that it breeds crime from the junkie in the gettos getting money for his next fix to providing funds for street gangs and terrorists around the world.

Legalize it and you remove that insentive. The taxes that it would generate would more than pay for treatment as well as emptying a large part of the prision populaton.

 

[mrsid99]

first of all in the united states, its entirely too easy to get a gun. you dont even have to wait anymore, and people pass guns around like its a kids toy.
md

Absolute B*** S***!
There is a Federal requirement for a mandatory waiting period and a background check for any firearm transfer, even between individuals.
Check out the firearms and violent crime rate in the UK since they effectively banned private firearms ownership, it's climbing exponentially!
It's also worth checking the violent crime rate in the States in the USA that have introduced "shall issue" concealed weapons permits and comparing them with ones that haven't.
Opinions are like armpits but I believe the frustrations of modern society are simply a result of too many people.

 

[Luminosity]

I dont believe yours is a country of 'shallow' emotions Sharkman .....America has a multitude of positive attributes and awesome ppl !
Also I'm hoping none of ya are taking what I say in the wrong way ... I've always been fascinated by your country to the point where I wanna live in it for a year or two and see as much of it as I can...
Airgunr you're right , there ARE sadistic and truly horrible ppl anywhere in the world ....personally I rely on gut instinct mixed with common sense all the time .. its always on to some degree or another. Good point on the per capita too.
The guns are just an object ... they dont pull their own trigger .. the question is WHAT does ( besides the obvious ) ... and how that comes to be , in such huge numbers...
The jury is still out on the issue of legalizing drugs ... I'm leaning towards pro ....havent thought it out properly yet tho.

Utopia , unfortunately , does not exist yet ...dunno if its possible considering human nature ... but that doesnt stop most of us from hoping we'll find it /create it

 

[MDowdey]

first of all in the united states, its entirely too easy to get a gun. you dont even have to wait anymore, and people pass guns around like its a kids toy.
md

Absolute B*** S***!
There is a Federal requirement for a mandatory waiting period and a background check for any firearm transfer, even between individuals.
Check out the firearms and violent crime rate in the UK since they effectively banned private firearms ownership, it's climbing exponentially!
It's also worth checking the violent crime rate in the States in the USA that have introduced "shall issue" concealed weapons permits and comparing them with ones that haven't.
Opinions are like armpits but I believe the frustrations of modern society are simply a result of too many people.

slow down sid!! i agree with you completely!! but the point im trying to get across is that in the inner cities of america, where there are no background checks, and there are no mandatory waiting periods, guns ARE passed around. When a 13 year old boy posseses a .45 caliber semi automatic 1911 pistol, and a police officer is forced to shoot and kill him...there can only be one answer..the gun was given to him or he found it. in any case, i think swifter laws on handguns should be required...not for people like you and me sid, that OWN MULTIPLE handguns, but for the average everyday thug that has to have a gun to make himself part of a gang or feel better about himself. for possesing a firearm of that magnitude, UNLAWFULLY, you should be behind bars for a long time.

md

 

[voodoocat]

Moore brought up the point that 70% of people in canada have a gun. They leave their doors unlocked yet still have a much lower homicide rate. So it's not the guns.

There is a Federal requirement for a mandatory waiting period and a background check for any firearm transfer, even between individuals.

What about gun shows? I don't remember when they closed that loophole. I still think most criminals aren't going to go through the front door to buy a gun.

I can definately see Moores main theory on what causes the violence. The media constantly pumping stories out that cause people to fear.
Then you've got companies that profit from this fear.... And a president that plays on that fear to sign bills that take away rights and start wars for ficticious reasons.

 

[MDowdey]

im sorry but i hate these threads. they cut too close for alot of people and they serve no purpose, plus, i havent even seen the movie. all i know i that violence breeds violence, and stupidity breeds stupidity. its only going to get worse.


md

 

[ormia]

My only problem with that movie is that part where he visit Canada. He shows the town where I was born and raised, Windsor Ontario, and talks about how even thouhg it's right across the river from Detriot we have such a low crime rate and asks a local how long it's been since there's been a murder. I can't remember exactly what I guy answered but it was something along the lines of several years. That's bull. People get murdered here every year. My second cousin was murdered here. The crime rate is lower than Detriot, thats for sure, but its not like you cross the border and you're in candyland. We have shooting deaths, more and more of them each year. I don't like that Moore simply took what one guy in a gun shop(? can't remember exact location) said and used that as a soild fact. Stuff like that makes me question other things in the movie.

 

[Luminosity]

Moore brought up the point that 70% of people in canada have a gun. They leave their doors unlocked yet still have a much lower homicide rate. So it's not the guns.

Thats a point that supports where I'm coming from here , thanks Voods.
When Moore was interviewing Marilyn Manson....as much as Manson makes me uneasy ( well , his alter ego does ) he actually made a good point also when he bought up the 'nurturing of fear' by news broadcasters , followed by intermissions of advertisements ...with their pleasant imagery , beautiful ppl , happy families , upbeat music etc .... from all the violence .......then suddenly... the lulling of " it's all ok folks , buy this car , that fridge , this toilet paper and hang on to your ( false ) sense of security.... ! "
And now Lumi really DOES sound paranoid lol !
Seriously tho ... thats why I have given up tv in the past and I might just do the same again...along with staying away from the big commercial media outlet 'news'... just numbs ya mind. Do a little experiment and dont watch the tv for a month or so .. watch how much more your brain and creativity kick in !