"Why I Can't Shoot Your Wedding for Free"

[Overkill777]

Great blog, very interesting.

 

[unpopular]

30% to uncle sam???

maybe you should hire an accountant.

 

[DiskoJoe]

30% to uncle sam???

maybe you should hire an accountant.

Yeah. Someone needs to learn the art of the write off.

 

[PolarRoids]

According to the detailed business calculations I do each year, I have to make $187 per hour shooting to BREAK EVEN. This doesn’t include my 25-30% for Uncle Sam. If I charge $4000 for the wedding above, I first have to take the 30% off =$1200. That leaves me with $2800 – but wait – I have costs. Costs for equipment, sample albums, marketing materials, software, office supplies, packaging materials, permits/ memberships, and the list goes on. The $187 per hour shooting cover this …with a seven hour ceremony, I need $1309 to just cover my investment. That leaves me with a remainder of $1491 … not bad, but not as good as the $4000. Don’t forget this is also for forty-one hours of work – not seven. That means, I end up with $36 an hour for my work. Curious about how these calculations were derived? Watch for Part ll! ​

Ah... beg to differ... the 1309 your claiming for marketing materials.. software.. etc.. is usually prorated over the year.. so unless your only doing (1) 4000 dollar shoot a year... that number isnt correct. Also... at the IRS rate your quoting.. you should be doing in access of 10-13 shoot per year to get into these levels of taxation.

Also.. your marketing materials.. equipment..software.. are all tax deductions.. so.. you are actually .. in a way.. getting that all for free.

So .. should you do things for free.. HECK no...

but.. *if your getting 4000 dollar wedding shoots*..

you also HARDLY the starving artist..

You dont need to work so hard to tell us you shouldnt work for free... focus on your freeloading friends and family...

(Im Just sayin.. )

 

[The_Traveler]

You've left out Patrick's hours in your calculations.

 

[Ballistics]

According to the detailed business calculations I do each year, I have to make $187 per hour shooting to BREAK EVEN. This doesn’t include my 25-30% for Uncle Sam. If I charge $4000 for the wedding above, I first have to take the 30% off =$1200. That leaves me with $2800 – but wait – I have costs. Costs for equipment, sample albums, marketing materials, software, office supplies, packaging materials, permits/ memberships, and the list goes on. The $187 per hour shooting cover this …with a seven hour ceremony, I need $1309 to just cover my investment. That leaves me with a remainder of $1491 … not bad, but not as good as the $4000. Don’t forget this is also for forty-one hours of work – not seven. That means, I end up with $36 an hour for my work. Curious about how these calculations were derived? Watch for Part ll! ​

Ah... beg to differ... the 1309 your claiming for marketing materials.. software.. etc.. is usually prorated over the year.. so unless your only doing (1) 4000 dollar shoot a year... that number isnt correct. Also... at the IRS rate your quoting.. you should be doing in access of 10-13 shoot per year to get into these levels of taxation.

Also.. your marketing materials.. equipment..software.. are all tax deductions.. so.. you are actually .. in a way.. getting that all for free.

So .. should you do things for free.. HECK no...

but.. *if your getting 4000 dollar wedding shoots*..

you also HARDLY the starving artist..

You dont need to work so hard to tell us you shouldnt work for free... focus on your freeloading friends and family...

(Im Just sayin.. )

Glad someone finally said this. A lot of your "costs" and time spent are greatly exaggerated and inflated.

Two hours blogging? How does that have anything to do with a specific client?
Takes you an hour to write an email?
The Meeting - If they're not a client yet, this time isn't towards their shoot. It's towards marketing.
Follow up takes an hour? C'mon.

I'm surprised you don't have the time ordering equipment and making your website in with hours spent towards shooting a wedding.

 

[PolarRoids]

According to the detailed business calculations I do each year, I have to make $187 per hour shooting to BREAK EVEN. This doesn’t include my 25-30% for Uncle Sam. If I charge $4000 for the wedding above, I first have to take the 30% off =$1200. That leaves me with $2800 – but wait – I have costs. Costs for equipment, sample albums, marketing materials, software, office supplies, packaging materials, permits/ memberships, and the list goes on. The $187 per hour shooting cover this …with a seven hour ceremony, I need $1309 to just cover my investment. That leaves me with a remainder of $1491 … not bad, but not as good as the $4000. Don’t forget this is also for forty-one hours of work – not seven. That means, I end up with $36 an hour for my work. Curious about how these calculations were derived? Watch for Part ll! ​

Ah... beg to differ... the 1309 your claiming for marketing materials.. software.. etc.. is usually prorated over the year.. so unless your only doing (1) 4000 dollar shoot a year... that number isnt correct. Also... at the IRS rate your quoting.. you should be doing in access of 10-13 shoot per year to get into these levels of taxation.

Also.. your marketing materials.. equipment..software.. are all tax deductions.. so.. you are actually .. in a way.. getting that all for free.

So .. should you do things for free.. HECK no...

but.. *if your getting 4000 dollar wedding shoots*..

you also HARDLY the starving artist..

You dont need to work so hard to tell us you shouldnt work for free... focus on your freeloading friends and family...

(Im Just sayin.. )

Glad someone finally said this. A lot of your "costs" and time spent are greatly exaggerated and inflated.

Two hours blogging? How does that have anything to do with a specific client?
Takes you an hour to write an email?
The Meeting - If they're not a client yet, this time isn't towards their shoot. It's towards marketing.
Follow up takes an hour? C'mon.

I'm surprised you don't have the time ordering equipment and making your website in with hours spent towards shooting a wedding.

You forgot bathroom breaks..... gotta get paid for those as well!... No.. this just smells of someone trying to create an issue.. and more likely.. trying to create an audiance for her blog.. vs. really addressing an actual issue that she is dealing with.

Often I find that some golden spoon artists.. where mommy and daddy provide.. while they explore their artistic sides.. beleive that everything they do.. they should be rewarded for.

A reasonable shoot - FLAT RATE pricing for the Wedding.. Before.. After.. reception... should be billed...

Then you own the proofs.. and they can select what photos they want in what quantity..at a pre agreed price.

If a photographer.. that is UNESTABLISHED.. said he/she needed 4000 dollars to shoot my wedding.. the laughter coming from me would fog their camera lens for a good week. We all are worth something... just be sure one uses maturity to determine that amount.... not arrogance.

 

[The_Traveler]

Often I find that some golden spoon artists.. where mommy and daddy provide.. while they explore their artistic sides.. beleive that everything they do.. they should be rewarded for.

A reasonable shoot - FLAT RATE pricing for the Wedding.. Before.. After.. reception... should be billed...

Then you own the proofs.. and they can select what photos they want in what quantity..at a pre agreed price.

If a photographer.. that is UNESTABLISHED.. said he/she needed 4000 dollars to shoot my wedding.. the laughter coming from me would fog their camera lens for a good week. We all are worth something... just be sure one uses maturity to determine that amount.... not arrogance.

Why the unpleasant ad hominem comments?
If the model is wrong or unreasonable then you can point to those but attacking someone you know nothing about just to score a point is certainly unprofessional.

 

[Ballistics]

Often I find that some golden spoon artists.. where mommy and daddy provide.. while they explore their artistic sides.. beleive that everything they do.. they should be rewarded for.

A reasonable shoot - FLAT RATE pricing for the Wedding.. Before.. After.. reception... should be billed...

Then you own the proofs.. and they can select what photos they want in what quantity..at a pre agreed price.

If a photographer.. that is UNESTABLISHED.. said he/she needed 4000 dollars to shoot my wedding.. the laughter coming from me would fog their camera lens for a good week. We all are worth something... just be sure one uses maturity to determine that amount.... not arrogance.

Why the unpleasant ad hominem comments?
If the model is wrong or unreasonable then you can point to those but attacking someone you know nothing about just to score a point is certainly unprofessional.

I agree. Personal attacks aren't appropriate, the rest of his post is though.

 

[Tee]

No.. this just smells of someone trying to create an issue.. and more likely.. trying to create an audiance for her blog.. vs. really addressing an actual issue that she is dealing with.

She's driving traffic to her site. Around this time of the original post there was an article on The Knot telling soon to be brides to go to flea markets to practice their haggling skills with vendors, to tell photographers they can get someone else at a better price and to always haggle for a discount. The Knot ended up deleting that entry and rewrote the blog after the cyber war cry was heard. This created an uproar and thus many wedding bloggers went apesh!t and started their own cost breakdown posts. I'd wager when she checks her weekly analytics, this referrer will show up and she'll remember she had posted this on here. When she does, she'll see my question of why she doesn't post more of her business triumphs and tribulations for other new photographers.

 

[paross2]

This was a good read. I can't wait to read part 2!

 

[rmr1923]

Very well written, I knew a lot of hours went into shooting a wedding but I had no idea it could be as much as in your example. Makes me REALLY appreciate my aunt for shooting our wedding free of charge.

 

[nycphotography]

Of course it's a 6 mo old thread dug back up... the last time I saw "this" it was on a different blog (it seems this idea's been rehashed a few times w/ a similar spin), but it still suffered from the same issues....

While I agree with the concept, the numbers are complete hogwash.

First, you don't pay 30% taxes on the Gross, you pay em on the net. IF you have lush extravagent expenses, then you won't have that much net, plus you probably* won't be paying 30% on it either (lower tax bracket).

If you have tight control over expenses, then you'll have most of that gross as net, but you'll ONLY pay the 30% of it, since you won't have the expenses.

So even if I grant you your lush extravagent $1309 in expenses, you're still making (4000-1309)/41 = $65/hr. Yes it's pre-tax, but that IS the number we ALL compare when we talk about jobs and wages. To try and pull an after tax number out for discussion just smacks of being intentionally disingenuous.

So let's compare that $65/hr (net profit / gross income) that you're complaining about to some national statistics.

The national average wage in 2011 was 42,000 / 2000 hrs = $21/hr. Hm. You're sitting on 3x that. Hm.

How about the national median wage for 2011. That was 27,000 / 2000 hrs = $13.50/hr. Just to be clear about this... you're complaining about making roughly 5x as much as HALF of all working Americans, basically, as an artist. Granted, weddings are hard work, so you're a HARD WORKING artist. But still. Get real about the numbers here. Plus, I'm pretty sure those half of all Americans work pretty hard for their $13.50/hr too.


*IF* I was shooting weddings, *and* someone wanted to negotiate on my $4000 price, I'd simply tell them that there are 20 wedding weekends a year, with 40 wedding dates in them, but realistically, I can only shoot Saturday or Sunday in a given week, but not both. I have to make my entire living on those 20 days of shooting. If you want me to do it for $2000, all you have to do is get married in October. If you want me to do it for $1000, just get married in Hawaii in January and pay my travel expenses.

 

[bogeyguy]

I'm sure when the OP is done paying not just her Federal taxes, but state taxes, city or boro wage taxes, busniness privelege taxes , etc.that the final total is in the 30% bracket.

 

[bsinmich]

As a self-employed person she has to pay SS and both parts. That just went up on Jan. 1 for this year but that was from a tax cut? that was given bycutting the SS contributions. Now it is back where it was a couple years ago. 30% is not an unreal figure if you include alltaxes. We still haven't heard about Patrick though. Does he donate his time? I did weddings back in the early 60s and chcarged $3-400. for a wedding with 12-18 8X10s in an album. That was all on 120 and 220 filmafter that came out. I would shoot 48-96 pictures and I never had anyone who did not want more than the original 12 or 18. I then had to print it all in the darkroom because it was all B&W then with 1 or 2 oiled for color. I did close to 100 weddings per year as a part time job. My Granddaughter got married this past summer and she had over 900 pictures to choose from. Things have changed.