Young Models

jlykins · Apr 23, 2009

I would like to say sorry if I have offended anyone. I had the best of intentions when I took the images, and when I posted them up here. I wouldn't ever purposely post anything that I felt would offend people. I understand the concerns, but if I had it to do all over again, I would. Between these two girls we have made almost $1000 already, and they have refered us numerous other models and dancers that they know and work with. I really do appreciate everyones comments. That is how I learn and grow as a photographer. I value every opinion.

bdavison · Apr 23, 2009

Well Im not offended. You got hired to take perfectly legal photos and did so. No problem with that.

Unfortunatly in the process you dragged out some self-righteous overprotective mom that decided you should be strung up and dragged behind her car because shes paranoid that everyone is a pedophile or something.

She should go check her kids myspace acct, her kid probably posted pics from her cellphone that would make a hooker blush.

Ive seen worse poses come out of disney.

bigtwinky · Apr 23, 2009

No offense here either.

I actually think you did the right thing in telling the mom "are you sure you want her to pose like this?". I think that shows that your head is in the right place and had the pose been worse/illegal, you would of refused to snap the picture.

I was thrown off a bit when I scrolled through the pictures and saw those poses. I personally think they are not right for a child of that age and don't really see the point of taking something like that. A casting director will not be looking for a 7 year old who can do that, they want kids to be kids and look like kids.

In terms of business, the mom made the wrong call in asking you to shoot the pose anyway. But hey, you are offering a service. You don't always have creative control over everything that is shot. If I put in my 2 cents and refused to shoot things unless they were the way I wanted, I wouldn't be paid.

Wait... I don't get paid for any of this, I'm just doing this for fun.

epp_b · Apr 23, 2009

Well, I didn't want to be the one to bring it up, but since someone already has, I'll come out say it: numbers 4, 5 and 6 give off a really bad vibe. You need to show them doing "kid" stuff, not doing "grown-up" stuff. It's creepy. Almost pedobear approved.

I would have simply told her mom that I won't photograph these poses.

1, 2, 3 and 7 are fine. #7 It's fun, it's expressive, it shows her being a kid.

GeneralBenson · Apr 24, 2009

I'm gonna have to agree that these are pretty sick. I'll also go a little further and say that the 12 year old ones are over the line as well, to me. The only reason they don't look appalling is because of the 7 yr old ones. But if I forget those for a moment, and just think about the fact that there is a 12 yr old try to look sexy, that is also creepy to me. But since that's not why you posted them, I'll go another step further and say that regardless of creepiness, I don't find them to be anything special. They all have elements that could be improved. They all pretty much look like direct sunlight pictures, and the light isn't very soft or flattering, and the shadows are mostly hard and distracting. The bricks look fake for some reason. I hd to stare at a few pictures to decide if they were real or not.

#1 - her head is perfectly level and her smile is flat and looks forced. Her head should be tilted. and there is a black thing sticking in the left side of the frame.

#2 - seems kind of overexposed. the ground is pretty dirty. her hair is too much in her eyes.

#3 - hair in eyes. otherwise pretty good. Really good expression.

#4 - Despite the fact that the girl seem to think this is a good model pose, it's not really. Backs of hands are generally a no no and are pretty unattractive in this and most cases. the white shirt and black vest are both clipped. the up the skirt pose is just revolting, sorry.

#5 - The pose is realy stiff, her legs are locked out, and her butt is sticking out in a way that makes it look big. her hair is all over the place. the background is a disaster.

#6 - same thing here, what's up with the background? half a bucket on the right edge, a trash can behing her head. It looks like you both forgot she was wearing a scarf and it just kind of ended up in the picture on accident. do they not own shoes or something?

#7 - This would be the best shot of the group is her hand wasn't cut off by that door. The plywood and the edge of the wall running out on the left are distracting. Should have backed up and cropped tighter with a longer focal length.

#8 - the one you posted up later is really crowded and busy in the background, and it looks like you keylighted her with on camera flash. The light is really harsh.

Seems like the whole shoot could have been improved by shooting at a later time.

wagaboo · Apr 24, 2009

#5 is just wrong and imo and should have been shot more like in the jump shot and more age appropriate at all even though the photos are well done , the parents imo are not too bright in allowing that sort of shoot...on just a couple of the shots though
My 2 Cents !!!

KmH · Apr 24, 2009

Interesting thread.

jlykins · Apr 27, 2009

I'm done defending myself, and the poses. If you don't like them fine, if you think I'm a creep, fine. I'm doing shoots that the customers ask for, that's how you stay in business.

Phranquey · Apr 27, 2009

jlykins said:
I'm done defending myself, and the poses. If you don't like them fine, if you think I'm a creep, fine. I'm doing shoots that the customers ask for, that's how you stay in business.

Dude, blow it off. They may be a bit age inappropriate, but as Arch said, they are definitey no where near illegal. It was a paid gig, directed by the mother. As was stated earlier, I have seen parents let girls of this age wear outfits at the pool that probably would make Hugh Hefner blush.

Jon0807 · Apr 27, 2009

Big Mike said:
Sounds a bit like an attack to me...

While we are on the topic...keep in mind that how someone interprets an image, has a lot to do with their own values.
Does the position of arms and legs make an image sexual to you? It is possible that you are interjecting a sexual overtone to images where it's non-existent? And who's to say if it's non-existent or not? Hard to say because everyone interprets it differently.

Of course, there are societal differences to be considered. In Europe, you may find an magazine ad for a sauna showing a naked family of four. In America, many would call that porn and be outraged.

I agree with Mike on this one. When I first looked at the pictures I saw some well done photos. Then I started to read others' comments and it just blew my mind at how people like to blow the "creepy underage pervert whistle" at the slightest hint of anything they don't agree with. I'm quite disappointed at how society as come to a point when a mother or father can't take a picture of their baby crawling on the floor for the first time without someone calling CPS because the baby was naked. Maybe these whistleblowers should read up on some Freud.

As for the photos themselves, the only ones I don't really care for are #5 and 6 because of the poses. They just seem awkward and unnatural when that doesn't seem to be the intent of the photos. I did not see a single thread of sexual innuendo at all. Just didn't care for the poses in those particular photos

epp_b · Apr 27, 2009

I'm quite disappointed at how society as come to a point when a mother or father can't take a picture of their baby crawling on the floor for the first time without someone calling CPS because the baby was naked.

It's one thing to take pictures of your own children for keepsake purposes. It's quite another for a photographer to pose children suggestively.

jlykins · Apr 28, 2009

But what if you are trying to get your kid into modeling, or into acting. What if you want to show every side that your kid can do. Then is it ok to pose them like this? Because that's what happened. The younger one spends an hour a night in front of the mirror posing... At least that's what her mother said. These mothers weren't white trash either. One of them is VP of a very large division of a vary large company(fortune 500 large), and the other's mom is in Some sort of goverment position here in town. They have refered us a ton of business since this shoot, which means that they're happy, which means I'm happy. That's all I'm ever out to do at a photo shoot, make the customer happy.

manaheim · Apr 28, 2009

jlynkins... the people on here who would rail at you for what you did will never be convinced. If you think you did the right thing and you can sleep at night with your decision, then I think you've done all you can expect to do.

Plenty of folks on here, including some of the mods, think you've done right by your craft and your profession.

jlykins · Apr 28, 2009

manaheim said:
jlynkins... the people on here who would rail at you for what you did will never be convinced. If you think you did the right thing and you can sleep at night with your decision, then I think you've done all you can expect to do.

Plenty of folks on here, including some of the mods, think you've done right by your craft and your profession.

Well put. Thanks.

Flash Harry · Apr 28, 2009

I rate myself as a normal heterosexual married father of three with a decent sexual appetite, to me the pictures/kids are just that, pictures of kids, the poses are not provocative and I don't find myself "turned on" by them, most male adults are not perverts and look at kids as just kids.

Those who have been offended by these shots I reckon should question whether they are looking at them from an adult point of view and whether to seek help sorting out their own issues, as, obviously, they see something sexually provocative in these children. H