1200 w/s vs 600 w/s

Viperstk · Feb 24, 2012

Hello all! I am new here and this is my first post / question.

I am a photography enthusiast and have set up a small studio in my home. I have 3 calumet genesis 200 strobes in use now with a variety of light modifiers. I have a 60' Norman octo and several large other large / small soft boxes. I also have a large beauty dish and a small beauty dish. All of my modifiers have the elinchrom adapters to fit the genesis strobes.

Now, after all that... I am looking to upgrade the strobes to enable me to take it outdoors. I am interested in shooting fashion style photography in the sunlight. Since all of my modifiers are elinchrom, I am looking at used elinchrom monolights.

My question is this - I am looking at the Elinchrom digital style 1200rx and the 600rx. Obviously the 1200 has much more power, but the 600 has a much shorter flash duration.
1200rx = 1/1450 sec
600rx = 1/2050 sec

I have read some on the advantages of the shorter for freezing action. Is that the only advantage? I may want to shoot some sporting events as well in the future (the kids). Does the extra power outweigh the advantages of shorter flash duration? Or, for my needs is 1/1450 fast enough.

Please help - all advise welcome.

Thanks

tirediron · Feb 24, 2012

It really depends on the situation. I wouldn't worry about the flash duration; 1/1450 is going to stop any action that needs stopping. The [potential] downside to a 1200 w/s unit is that it may not go down low enough to use for close-range work. I have rarely found the need for more than 250 - 400 w/s for studio work.

Viperstk · Feb 24, 2012

Thank you for your reply! That is a good point.

The 600's Power variation is from 600 to 9 w/s in 0.1 stop increments for a full 6 f/stops.
The 1200's Power variation is from 1200 to 9 w/s in .1 stop increments for 6 f/stops as well.

My 200's do well for almost everything i do in my small studio. They struggle a bit with my larger modifiers. Really, I am wanting the power for outdoors but am not sure how much I will need.

KmH · Feb 24, 2012

+1 that the 1/1450 should be a short enough flash duration to stop most motion.

The flash duration also gets shorter if you use more than 1 RX head. See page 12 here - http://elinchrom.s3.amazonaws.com/download/110204-digital_rx_e-d-f.pdf

Village Idiot · Feb 24, 2012

The 1200 is only one stop of light more than the 600. If you're not shooting outside in direct sunlight or in cavernous rooms, then it shouldn't be an issue going with the 6 over the 12.

Edit: Light has a dimishing return (often reflected in prices). A 9600 w/s light sounds absolutely HUGE, right? Well one stop of light is double the power, which is usually 3 clicks of apeture, ISO, or shutter speed on a modern DSLR as most are set to increment in 1/3 stops.

So,
9,600
4,800
2,400
1,200
600
300
150
75
37.5
18.75
9.375

That's 10 stops of light from 9,600 w/s all to way to 9.375 w/s. As you can see, at the higher w/s the amount of power it takes to increase one stop is absolutely massive compaer to the measely 9.375 w/s it takes to add an extra stop of light. That's over 1000 times the power needed to add one stop of light.

Mach0 · Feb 24, 2012

Village Idiot said:
The 1200 is only one stop of light more than the 600. If you're not shooting outside in direct sunlight or in cavernous rooms, then it shouldn't be an issue going with the 6 over the 12.

Edit: Light has a dimishing return (often reflected in prices). A 9600 w/s light sounds absolutely HUGE, right? Well one stop of light is double the power, which is usually 3 clicks of apeture, ISO, or shutter speed on a modern DSLR as most are set to increment in 1/3 stops.

So,
9,600
4,800
2,400
1,200
600
300
150
75
37.5
18.75
9.375

That's 10 stops of light from 9,600 w/s all to way to 9.375 w/s. As you can see, at the higher w/s the amount of power it takes to increase one stop is absolutely massive compaer to the measely 9.375 w/s it takes to add an extra stop of light. That's over 1000 times the power needed to add one stop of light.

I think I need to bookmark this and re read this later. My eyes did the Harlem shake lol.

KmH · Feb 24, 2012

A stop is a doubeling or a halving.

ISO 400 is 2x more sensitive to light as ISO 200 is. ISO 4000 is half as sensitive to light as ISO 8000 is.
1/100 of shutter speed is twice as long as 1/200 is. 1/8000 is twice as short a shutter speed as 1/4000 is.

10 stops of shutter speed:

1/10
1/20
1/40
1/80
1/160
1/320
1/640
1/1280
1/2560
1/5120

10 stops of lens aperture: (lens aperture is about the area of the lens opening, not the diameter. Area doubles as the square root of 2 - 1.4142 - instead of 2)

f/1
f/1.4
f/2
f/2.8
f/4
f/5.6
f/8
f/11
f/16
f/32

mjhoward · Feb 24, 2012

Viperstk said:
My question is this - I am looking at the Elinchrom digital style 1200rx and the 600rx. Obviously the 1200 has much more power, but the 600 has a much shorter flash duration.
1200rx = 1/1450 sec
600rx = 1/2050 sec

Yea but what is the 1200rx's flash duration at 1/2 power?

Viperstk · Feb 25, 2012

Wow, a lot of great information. Thank you all!
I am going to keep this information close at hand. I am still on the fence. I found great deals on both the 600 and the 1200 elinchrom monolights. I can afford to buy either pair.

I had a freind tell me yesterday to buy all the wats you can afford. You can always dial them down, but you can't dial up past max. Good point I guess. I do want to experiment with fashion style shots in the sun but don't want to have something I can't use in my small studio. I also don't want to regret not buying the 1200's come summer out in the sun. The deals are great on both; pair of 600's = $800 pair of 1200's = $1000.

KmH · Feb 25, 2012

If people new more about science and math, many of these types of decisions would be a lot easier.

The Sun essentially puts out a fixed amount of light. Earth's atmosphere then attenuates that light to one degree or another depending on what the weather is doing, the photographers location on the planet, and what time of year it is.

So all you need to know is how bright the Sun can be. That brightness, and the brightness of studio strobes, is quantified in Lumens - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lumen_(unit)

Lumens gives you a yardstick to use for comparison.

Derrel · Feb 25, 2012

One quesrtion not posed yet is this: Are the Elinchrom digital style 1200rx and the 600rx compatible with a pure sine wave inverter power supply for this outdoor use??? A few years back, in 2008, I beleive that the Elinchrom Digital Style series monolights were not compatible with the Innovatronix brand of portable sine wave inverters--which I consider to be the brand that offers the best value and feature set in that equipment segment. So...do you have a portable power supply that will function with those "digital" lights?

As to the durations....either 1/1450 or 1/2050 ought to freeze most non motor-sport action.

Viperstk · Feb 25, 2012

"If people new more about science and math, many of these types of decisions would be a lot easier."

If people want to learn more about photography they should be able to post in forums like these without being belittled or insulted. Science is actually my strongpoint, medical science though. I know nothing of lumens, that is why I am here.

By the way, your link is incorrect. And while i am at it, in the science community Wikipedia is considered an invalid source - FYI.

Thank you just the same.

Viperstk · Feb 25, 2012

@Derrel: good point. I have t two Vagabond Mini portable power sources. Some examples on youtube seems to show that they will work, at least with the 600's. But I need to do more research on that point. Thanks for your post.

Village Idiot · Feb 27, 2012

Derrel said:
One quesrtion not posed yet is this: Are the Elinchrom digital style 1200rx and the 600rx compatible with a pure sine wave inverter power supply for this outdoor use??? A few years back, in 2008, I beleive that the Elinchrom Digital Style series monolights were not compatible with the Innovatronix brand of portable sine wave inverters--which I consider to be the brand that offers the best value and feature set in that equipment segment. So...do you have a portable power supply that will function with those "digital" lights?

As to the durations....either 1/1450 or 1/2050 ought to freeze most non motor-sport action.

Innovatronix Incorporated | Products & Services

Yes. The RX lights, although containing digital power controls, are only single voltage and not multi voltage like the BXRI. You have to specifically purchase the strobes with a specific voltage that matches the power source where you're located at. The BXRI lights will switch the operating voltage depending on where they're plugged in (US vs. Europe, etc...)

Even then, the new XT3 and BXRI say that they're compatible, it just may not be compatible with more than one or two strobes on a power source. The RX lights will work on a VML. There's a user on POTN that extensively uses Elinchrom lights and has tested out the 600 and 1200 RXs with the VML. The VML really isn't the best option though for high powered lights or several regular sized lights as the recycle speed will be an issue. One battery per light would be the best option there.

Viperstk said:
@Derrel: good point. I have t two Vagabond Mini portable power sources. Some examples on youtube seems to show that they will work, at least with the 600's. But I need to do more research on that point. Thanks for your post.

See above.