A conundrum

[photoguy99]

Lest anyone think I am picking on anyone specific here, I assure you I am not. If pressed, privately, I can come up with.. (give me a few seconds...) at least 4 specific instances of this phenomenon. And probably more if I thought about it a bit more. Publically, my lips are jolly well sealed, however.

Suppose someone posts pictures from time to time. And suppose that they have some friends. And suppose that they push back pretty hard on critique that's not pretty much entirely positive or trivially fixable technical things "I'd clone out the ... " and so on.

Eventually what happens is that the negative critique dries up. People just can't be bothered to get into a fight with the poster and the poster's friends.

And now we have someone posting pictures and getting, apparently, nothing but applause. It looks, to a newcomer, as if this is The Gold Standard. Everyone Loves These Pictures. To be fair, none of the examples I can think up posted particularly bad pictures. Certainly there's always something to like. Still.

Is that OK? Is that a good thing? A bad thing? Ought one.. I dunno, do something? Should we fight the good fight and offer our best critique anyways, or just walk away?

It closes things down in several dimensions, to my eye. But I don't really see any good ways to avoid it.

 

[JacaRanda]

I would say 'just walk away'. Is there really such a thing as the good fight?

Pixmedic says it often. There is nothing that forces us to do anything in the forum. Everything within the forum rules is voluntary.

When we stick around long enough, we see patterns. I certainly do. Sometimes I chime in, and sometimes I don't. Seems to me to be the nature of the beast.

 

[photoguy99]

Yeah, of course that's right. It feels like the best of a bad set of choices, though. It feels dishonest.

Not toooo long ago there was a strong culture of DON'T ARGUE WITH THE CRITIQUE which was unfortunately enforced largely by sociopaths who have moved on with their lives. It had some positive effects, though.

 

[pixmedic]

Lest anyone think I am picking on anyone specific here, I assure you I am not. If pressed, privately, I can come up with.. (give me a few seconds...) at least 4 specific instances of this phenomenon. And probably more if I thought about it a bit more. Publically, my lips are jolly well sealed, however.

Suppose someone posts pictures from time to time. And suppose that they have some friends. And suppose that they push back pretty hard on critique that's not pretty much entirely positive or trivially fixable technical things "I'd clone out the ... " and so on.

Eventually what happens is that the negative critique dries up. People just can't be bothered to get into a fight with the poster and the poster's friends.

And now we have someone posting pictures and getting, apparently, nothing but applause. It looks, to a newcomer, as if this is The Gold Standard. Everyone Loves These Pictures. To be fair, none of the examples I can think up posted particularly bad pictures. Certainly there's always something to like. Still.

Is that OK? Is that a good thing? A bad thing? Ought one.. I dunno, do something? Should we fight the good fight and offer our best critique anyways, or just walk away?

It closes things down in several dimensions, to my eye. But I don't really see any good ways to avoid it.

if your looking for some fresh meat, you can always hit up my latest submissions and let me know what you think.
ive had a few good suggestions already, but im always happy to hear some new ideas.
Family Portraits Photography Forum

 

[Designer]

Is that OK? Is that a good thing? A bad thing? Ought one.. I dunno, do something? Should we fight the good fight and offer our best critique anyways, or just walk away?

I know the feeling well.

No, it is not good for the forum nor for photography in general. One can see the effects of ill-considered and unwarranted praise on various hosting sites which are often considered the kindergarten of online photography sites. I've read that here many times, both by longtime members and newcomers who say "such-and-such" site is just "nice photograph" and "nice job" and similar. The newcomers claim to want some real C&C, having had their fill of fluff on the other sites.

IMO we simply do what we can to offer the best criticism that we can. We are not going to change the world, and maybe not even one photographer, but we just keep on keeping on.

To be sure, there are posters who need not read any more of my critiques, particularly the ones who have asked that I stay away. (It's not Dan, BTW)

 

[Overread]

Be honest
Be polite
Be factual
Be detailed where appropriate
Be impartial
Do NOT demand nor expect the other party to accept your viewpoint - be prepared to agree to disagree
Do NOT fight/sling insults/use smilies/fling dislikes/etc.... around during the process.

That's really all you have to do - its not difficult.

 

[Derrel]

Why even bother with these people? They already know it all.

Why not simply allow them to continue to make the same mistakes over and over?

 

[rexbobcat]

I don't think it's fair to assume that the photographer is always the one who needs to evolve their method of doing things.

There's nothing wrong with discussing critique if it's done civilly, but I do think it's wrong to have the attitude of "I know I'm right, so I don't have time for this" when it comes to having your critique challenged.

It would be ironic (hypocritical?) to think that the photographer is too far up their own backside because they show their disagreement, while also believing that they're not worth the discussion.

 

[runnah]

To me this place is about sharing your photos with fellow enthusiasts, not to force your ideals unto others who do not share the same ones.

 

[rexbobcat]

Lest anyone think I am picking on anyone specific here, I assure you I am not. If pressed, privately, I can come up with.. (give me a few seconds...) at least 4 specific instances of this phenomenon. And probably more if I thought about it a bit more. Publically, my lips are jolly well sealed, however.

Suppose someone posts pictures from time to time. And suppose that they have some friends. And suppose that they push back pretty hard on critique that's not pretty much entirely positive or trivially fixable technical things "I'd clone out the ... " and so on.

Eventually what happens is that the negative critique dries up. People just can't be bothered to get into a fight with the poster and the poster's friends.

And now we have someone posting pictures and getting, apparently, nothing but applause. It looks, to a newcomer, as if this is The Gold Standard. Everyone Loves These Pictures. To be fair, none of the examples I can think up posted particularly bad pictures. Certainly there's always something to like. Still.

Is that OK? Is that a good thing? A bad thing? Ought one.. I dunno, do something? Should we fight the good fight and offer our best critique anyways, or just walk away?

It closes things down in several dimensions, to my eye. But I don't really see any good ways to avoid it.

if your looking for some fresh meat, you can always hit up my latest submissions and let me know what you think.
ive had a few good suggestions already, but im always happy to hear some new ideas.
Family Portraits Photography Forum

Those are literally the worst pics I've ever seen here. You should be ashamed.

Oh, and this is just my opinion, so you can't say anything bad about it. Because the First Amendment, duh. #this-is-sarcasm-everybody-calm-down

 

[dennybeall]

There is a big difference in folks that comment on photos and those few that just love to attack others opinions and comments.
C&C should be for the person that asked for it and it should be about the photo. C&C should not be on the opinions of other posters.
Also, those folks that are so convinced they are hilariously funny should explain their humor.

 

[W.Y.Photo]

Here's what I think the problem is... Human beings in general are too quick to claim their opinions as fact, which in turn creates resentment in a person who intentionally does something purposefully and is told they are objectivelly wrong.

so a discussion like this occurs:

Critter: "B&W looks horrid on this image. This is not the way it should be presented."
Critee: "Nuh uh! I chose this for reasons 1, 2, and 3, so back off."
Critter: "No, it is bad."
Critee: "Whateva, Whateva, I do what I want."

rather than one like this:

Critter: "I don't like the choice of B&W in this image, it makes the image, which would have benefited from a showing of colors, look bland and boring to me."
Critee: "Well, thank you for your comments, however, I respectfully disagree. The monotoned color pallet was necessary to get my ideas across because 1, 2, and 3."
Critter: "I see your point, but i still believe this image would benefit from color, here's why: 4, 5, and 6."
Critee: "Wow those points may help me next time I chose to make an image!! I still like this in black and white but that was really helpful!! Thanks!!"
Critter: "Cool."

 

[astroNikon]

I think it totally varies, and sometimes unfortunately an expert (or non-expert) can be particularly harsh (and hopefully not meaning to be) to a newbie. Sometimes newbies are technically deficient and they don't know it. So I try to identify things such as the exposure triangle and how to learn it better. Where as if an expert puts something up specific I try to be very specific about something (not that I'm an expert, but critiquing requires learning how to critique too).

Sometimes someone isn't looking for C&C and just offer up a picture ... so you go .. "nice photo" I did that recently with some first photos of my new lens ... just showing my new lens essentially.

If you really want to excel it's hard to do it with all the varying critiques. It may be best to get one of those mentors here .. then you can learn based upon their knowledge only so it's specific and you can evolve on specific ideologies. I was doing that but got sidetracked last fall. You get excellent advice without having to wade through all the various perspectives of various advice.