A Pro Pentax?

[JIP]

Are we looking for a sparing match? You are pretty provocative.

Provocative??? I guess that's in the eye of the beholder. You are given gear by a company for a reason I will assume they don't pay you but if they do that makes it even moreso. The reason is to promote their product so therefore you are an advertiser.

 

[Chas]

Good grief you guys! I came to this thread because I'm getting back into SLR photography after a hiatus of about eight years and am looking for some good advice from experience photographers like you are supposed to be .... I ran a search on the K10 and this thread popped right up - imagine my surprise when it turned into a personal slanging match. Cast your eyes to the left: this is my first post on this forum! Now if I wanted a fight, I'd go back to the aviation forum I just got kicked out of .... [only kidding, it's my sick sense of humor ...]

Potted history: 1968 Spotmatic was my first love (50mm f/1.4 Super-Tak, 28 mm f/3.5 Super-Tak, 200 mm that I left in a rental car at my sister's wedding ..), then I went into 4 X 5 format in the 80s (Takihara field camera, Calumet studio, Caltar lenses), then back to film SLR in the 90's (Canon A2 with a Sigma 28-200 that I found out yesterday doesn't fire up right with the XTi or D30 and can't be rechipped - wtf). Point-and-shoot (Fuji, Canon) since then - a sad story really. OK so I'm a rank amateur but a serious enthusiast who had a full basement darkroom in the 90's.

Looking at the specs, the K10D looks like a fine machine for my advanced-amateur purposes (OK, I might even get into some pro photography at some point...). The XTi is too small and doesn't feel right to hand but the specs are good (no spot and no top LCD display though - problematic), the D80 is a possibility but I'd love to be able to still use the wonderful Takumar glass. No, I am not afraid to work in full manual on occasion with the old lenses (will the light meter work right?), but I want to stay with a system of superb, high-tech lenses as well. I have a few $$ to spend, if I play things right with the better half .....

So please, help me out. You guys know your stuff (I'm assuming), stop your bickering and help out a fellow photographer here. I don't care who's a pro and who's an amateur, or who gets paid by whom for what, I'm looking for experience and honest advice is all .........

Best,
Charles.

Later: hmmmm, maybe I should start a thread in "Equipment ......" with this post, am I completely in the wrong sub-forum here? Sheesh, what a newb...

 

[Don Simon]

Hi Charles. Welcome to the forum. To be honest it would probably be better to start up a separate thread so you can just get advice without all the stuff from this thread getting involved, but here goes.

I tend to agree about the XTi's size, and if that is an issue you will probably find the D40 too small as well, and probably the same with the K100d too. The K10d, Nikon D80 and Canon 20D/30D are larger and take battery grips; this class above entry-level also tend to have more dedicated controls, dials etc, so for these reasons I would definitely look to start at that level rather than 'entry-level' if you can afford it.

If it's Takumar screw-mount lenses you're interested in, they will work on the Pentaxes with an adapter and you will have metering, but they will also work on the Canon EOS cameras with an adapter too. To be honest the Canon may be the best system for compatibility with a wide variety of lenses; with Canon dSLRs you can't use old FD lenses because they are a completely different mount, but you can use Nikon and M42 lenses with an appropriate adapter - and of course Canon EF lenses.

If manual focus is an issue then the K10d's pentaprism and replaceable focus screens should definitely help. However I believe Nikon have also improved their viewfinders and the D80 may be good for that too. Anyway whatever system you get, you will be able to replace the focusing screens with third-party ones designed for manual focus.

If you want a large system of "superb, high-tech lenses", I would have to recommend Canon. I don't believe for a second that their glass is inherent better, but they do have the largest range. Nikon would be next, again a large and widely available range. Pentax, you will find lenses for most needs and they are good lenses... but sometimes you will not find what you want and it can be frustrating...

... Let me give an example. You will have trouble finding a fast telephoto zoom for Pentax right now... Sigma decided to upgrade their 70-200 and not bother releasing it for Pentax until the end of the year, Tokina won't release K-mount lenses because they have an agreement with Pentax as a result of the two companies cooperating on lens designs... and Pentax's own 50-135mm has just been delayed again after the company was bought by Hoya. Now by the end of the year you will be able to get the Pentax zoom, and by next year you will have options for Sigma and Tamron too... but until then nothing to fill that gap. What I'm saying is not that you should avoid Pentax (I use them and I'm happy)... just that you should check that they can cover your needs... of course the same applies with any company.

I don't think you can go too far wrong with any system, but based on your needs Canon may be the best option; just avoid the Rebels (IMO) and go straight for a 5D if you can stretch to that, since that will give you a better viewfinder for manual focus than a smaller-sensor dSLR provides.

 

[Chas]

Thank you Sir for a very informative, considerate and timely post. Am I to expect this after every Photo Forum post in future? (rhetorical ....). Actually it doesn't surprise me in the least, since I've read one or two others of yours. I really am going to be hanging around this forum in the future, I can tell that now.

Indeed I had been wondering about the adaptability of DSLR Canons to the old Takumar screw mounts, so you have educated me on that important question. I did read somewhere that Canon bodies have good back-compatibility, but this subject has been a bit abstruse for me until now. Nothing like an "Error 99" message (my Sigma 28-200 on an XTi and on a 30D in the shop) to wake you up to the issue - ouch! Will the exposure metering on the 30D (or the rumored 40D, that I'm wondering about and may patiently await ....) work fully on my beloved 50 mm f/1.4 Takumar or my 28 mm f/3.5? Not that this is a deal-breaker, I still plan to get some use out of the old Pentax Spotmeter and Gossen incident light meter. You are probably getting the picture already, I just love taking time over a shot sometimes to really understand the light values - hence my 4X5 "period". Photography isn't just about bursts of RAW (though I can't wait to shoot my first ....).

Your post came across as very fair and balanced if I may say. You understand that I am an Asahi Pentax fan from way back, my dad gave me one before going up to college in England and I still remember my first experiences with it. So I am very sensitive to the whole brand popularity issue - almost all you read on the internet seems to be Canon- or Nikon-related. But this is understandable I suppose, given the sales figures. Me, I don't care a fig about sales, I'm interested in technical matters and of course compatibility issues. But that Spotmatic (and those Takumars) accompanied me to some very interesting and memorable places over the years ..... what can I say, it's hard to be entirely rational in such matters.

Cheers, Charles.

 

[Don Simon]

Thanks - and glad to see you're planning to stick around!

I'm not entirely sure about the metering, hopefully a Canon person can answer that... but I expect you will have centre-weighted metering but have to stop down for a reading.

As for your Error 99, I expect that is a problem with the Sigma lens rather than the Canon body; Sigmas sometimes 'lose' compatibility with newer Canons and have to be re-chipped; of course they only support them for so long. I believe this is because Sigma reverse engineers instead of buying the rights; I don't think this is the case with Tamron and Tokina although I could be wrong.

Just to go slightly off-topic for a minute... I notice that all the people who nobly jumped up in defence of the forum against spamming and advertising here don't seem to be quite so vigilant when other people make repeated posts that seem a little like advertising and spam...

 

[Chas]

Yes, you make a good point. One man's spam is another man's .... whatever. I'm inclined to give people the benefit of the doubt, until there can be no doubt of course. I try to judge people from what I read that they write, in its proper context (*pious icon here*). But now I'm guilty of taking part in the controversy - so soon already! So many ironies crop up in forums I've found.

To get back to the Asahi OP (err, Pentax - why did they change their name anyway?) , I have always associated this company with a very high level of quality in workmanship and attention to detail. Yes, they are conservative in a sense (not a bad thing IMO), but I also have thought of them as innovative, at least in the early days, but perhaps that isn't so true now. Well I don't care much about that either - innovation is a two-edged sword for the consumer as most people learn the hard way in one way or another, but of course one has to applaud companies that invest heavily in novel technologies - it's what keeps me employed in another field as it happens.

I've spent a lot of time on an active general aviation forum (light aircraft - I now like to shoot from the cockpit on almost every flight), and I'll say one thing for sure: photography is much like the single-engine piston aircraft (not that I'm in the market to buy one mind you ....). There are is bewildering variety of choices and considerations, you mostly get what you pay for (i.e. it's a highly competitive marketplace), and any final decision is bound to be a compromise. Perfection is impossible, because there are always trade-offs. The good thing is, that means there's room for lots of good companies with different philosophies and strategies .....

p.s. I spoke to a technical person at Sigma yesterday and the polite fellow said that my older lens (I supplied the model details of course ..) was not capable of being re-chipped for a late-model DSLR. Sigma didn't pay for a license as you point out, so it's all reverse-engineered and likely to run into issues later on. Well, I've learned my lesson when it comes to third-party lenses and rapidly changing firmware in DSLR bodies. Sheesh, what a Brave New World it is for this old spotmatic shooter (I'm loving every minute though, I aint complainin') .......

 

[Don Simon]

It's definitely worth considering whether your lens will stay compatible - especially with Sigma. I have an old Vivitar which won't meter on my dSLR even though it has the contacts that mean it should... but then Vivitar lenses were made by various different companies, so I guess that was, er, a fourth party lens... however I have never had a problem with Tamron or Tokina lenses, I haven't heard of many other folks having issues with them either. As for Sigma, if you bought an expensive Sigma lens today and it wasn't compatible with next year's dSLR, I think Sigma would re-chip it... if it 'lost' compatibility in 10 or 15 years of course that would be another matter... but then who's to say whether the company will even be using the same mount by then? IMO there's advantages and disadvantages to buying third-party... as with everything else it's a question of priorities and compromises.

As for Pentax... they don't do a whole lot of innovation now as far as I can see. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing of course. They still do things differently though... like the range of pancake lenses. One of my other favourite companies, Minolta, was fairly good at innovation but they are no more and I'm still waiting to see what Sony does with that system. The most innovative company to me at the moment seems to be Olympus... of course Canon and Nikon bring out state-of-the-art stuff but it always seems to me like you have to pay a lot for the really high-end products to get it. Anyway those are just my thoughts. You say there is room for lots of good companies and I hope that's right. Choice has to be a good thing. Sites like DPreview are always full of people foreseeing the death of various companies, and I can never understand why they look forward to that happening... I don't see how a real monopoly or duopoly would be good for anyone.

 

[Chas]

.... however I have never had a problem with Tamron or Tokina lenses, ....

Wow, I'd forgotten that I bought a Tamron 200 mm 70-210 screw-mount lens (push-zoom) for my Spotmatic after I left the Takumar 200 in the back seat of the cab (not a rental car IIRC, circa 1972). I mean, I forgot it was a Tamron until now. Hmmm, does this make me a serious photographer - surely you have to be one to forget an item like that. Either that or, well, let's not go there ..... Seriously though, thanks for your insights, I appreciate their worth believe me. At least I've retained enough about photography to benefit from your posts.

I'll have to Search "pancake" lenses though, don't think I ever knew what that meant.

Sites like DPreview are always full of people foreseeing the death of various companies, and I can never understand why they look forward to that happening...

Yes, I've only been lurking around photo forums for a short time and I've already noticed that. Well, somehow I don't think such predictions carry much weight. I agree that genuine competition is a very good thing in any business, in the longer term. Part of me wants to buy another Pentax as a show of support for a fine company, and to promote diversity in the business - other things being about equal. A world restricted to Canons and Nikons would not be a desirable thing - not that that is going to happen I trust. As you say, Olympus is also doing a lot of innovating and Asahi (I mean Pentax) is showing signs of a revival in the higher end. And I assume they still know how to make just a superb bit of glass ......

Sorry for the hijack people, to the extent that I've hijacked. But I'm an Asahi guy - please cut me a break. Besides, I've taken Zaphod's advice and started another thread in a better spot.