A student considering switching Nikon for Canon.

[inTempus]

Sorry Tim, but you're the one on a mission...you keep resorting to fanboy type comments like "Nikon rocks, Canon sucks," and trying to attribute such comments to me. You referring to one of the web's largest lens testing sites a "blogger",etc,etc. is indicative of your ad-man style of put-down ad hominems in an effort to defend your beloved Canon brand. You are even the web master of Kwanonians, a Canon fan site. Your own signature, with your list of newly-bought L-glass lenses is quite a sign of gear-centric fanboyism. I love how you put the "L" in red type face! Sorry dude, I'm commtited to both brands, Canon and Nikon, for the forseeable future. I will use whatever is the better product to get what I need,and I shoot a mix of Canon and Nikon equipment. You? You've been at this whole game for a year,and are alresdy the web master at a Canon fan site??? Sorry buddy, but your sense of objectivity and your inability to listen to anything sombody with more experience says speaks volumes...

I OWN and USE a reasonably complete Canon system. YOU are the one who keeps using the word "sucks". Your juvenile approach is tiresome.

What's the URL for Kwanonians again??? I see you dropped the HUGE "Kwanonians" hot-link from your signature recently. Did TPF management ask you to drop that hot link, or did you just do it to appear impartial when you launched your "another unfavorable review of the Canon 7D thread" two days ago?

You see, you can do nothing but fling insults. You're so worked up you can't even be civil.

It's best we drop it since you obviously can't have a conversation where you're not insulting or talking down to people. The sophomoric personal attacks you resort to when you're cornered on your inaccuracies are tiresome.

 

[Dao]

.....It's best we drop it since you obviously can't have a conversation where you're not insulting or talking down to people.....

:thumbup::thumbup:

 

[Village Idiot]

You see, you can do nothing but fling insults. You're so worked up you can't even be civil.

It's best we drop it since you obviously can't have a conversation where you're not insulting or talking down to people. The sophomoric personal attacks you resort to when you're cornered on your inaccuracies are tiresome.

How many 24-70's have you owned or used? Owned one and used a firend's, myself. Out of the two I used, I found they both have had front or back focusing issues out of the box and that if you're using an older camera without micro adjustments, then you're probably going to be disappointed unless you send it off to have it calibrate. I guess that could make you utterly despise a company.

Once I had it adjusted to my 5DII, it was golden. I did send it in when I had the shutter problem just so they could set it up right.

 

[inTempus]

You see, you can do nothing but fling insults. You're so worked up you can't even be civil.

It's best we drop it since you obviously can't have a conversation where you're not insulting or talking down to people. The sophomoric personal attacks you resort to when you're cornered on your inaccuracies are tiresome.

How many 24-70's have you owned or used? Owned one and used a firend's, myself. Out of the two I used, I found they both have had front or back focusing issues out of the box and that if you're using an older camera without micro adjustments, then you're probably going to be disappointed unless you send it off to have it calibrate. I guess that could make you utterly despise a company.

Once I had it adjusted to my 5DII, it was golden. I did send it in when I had the shutter problem just so they could set it up right.

I've just owned one, and two friends have them (and one has the 24-105 to go with it - which he prefers). I've not had a problem with mine as you can see from the images I posted earlier in this thread. But I also know from reading the Canon forums that the 24-70 seems to have more issues with this than other models... perhaps because it's one of Canon's most popular lenses and so many are in circulation. Who knows.

My point is that all lenses from all manufacturers can have issues occasionally.

Derrel, on the other hand, claims Nikon has quality control whereas Canon doesn't. He also implies that Canon suffers from optically decentered lenses, and again Nikon doesn't (which I debunk in this thread). He's also claimed that Canon has front/back focusing issues whereas due to their superior quality control, Nikon doesn't... a notion I debunk in this post.

What I have a problem with is someone posting inaccurate information about either brand. Derrel's posts are obviously biased and full of technical inaccuracies as I've pointed out. Claiming Canon lacks quality control, is the only company that needs micro-adjustment because of their faulty lenses, is the only company that suffers from optically decentered lenses, etc. is not useful.

I would retract this assessment if he could do what I've asked several times now and post his sources for these claims. But thus far all I've gotten out of him are angry posts attacking my signature line, website, experience, character, etc... so I have to assume he doesn't have a source for these rather outlandish claims which are easily disproved by a quick Google search.

Personally, if I had it to do all over again I would go with Nikon most likely. I've often considered switching mostly because of the features of their bodies, not because they offer superior lenses or superior image quality.

 

[Village Idiot]

You see, you can do nothing but fling insults. You're so worked up you can't even be civil.

It's best we drop it since you obviously can't have a conversation where you're not insulting or talking down to people. The sophomoric personal attacks you resort to when you're cornered on your inaccuracies are tiresome.

How many 24-70's have you owned or used? Owned one and used a firend's, myself. Out of the two I used, I found they both have had front or back focusing issues out of the box and that if you're using an older camera without micro adjustments, then you're probably going to be disappointed unless you send it off to have it calibrate. I guess that could make you utterly despise a company.

Once I had it adjusted to my 5DII, it was golden. I did send it in when I had the shutter problem just so they could set it up right.

I've just owned one, and two friends have them (and one has the 24-105 to go with it - which he prefers). I've not had a problem with mine as you can see from the images I posted earlier in this thread. But I also know from reading the Canon forums that the 24-70 seems to have more issues with this than other models... perhaps because it's one of Canon's most popular lenses and so many are in circulation. Who knows.

My point is that all lenses from all manufacturers can have issues occasionally.

Derrel, on the other hand, claims Nikon has quality control whereas Canon doesn't. He also implies that Canon suffers from optically decentered lenses, and again Nikon doesn't (which I debunk in this thread). He's also claimed that Canon has front/back focusing issues whereas due to their superior quality control, Nikon doesn't... a notion I debunk in this post.

What I have a problem with is someone posting inaccurate information about either brand. Derrel's posts are obviously biased and full of technical inaccuracies as I've pointed out. Claiming Canon lacks quality control, is the only company that needs micro-adjustment because of their faulty lenses, is the only company that suffers from optically decentered lenses, etc. is not useful.

I would retract this assessment if he could do what I've asked several times now and post his sources for these claims. But thus far all I've gotten out of him are angry posts attacking my signature line, website, experience, character, etc... so I have to assume he doesn't have a source for these rather outlandish claims which are easily disproved by a quick Google search.

Personally, if I had it to do all over again I would go with Nikon most likely. I've often considered switching mostly because of the features of their bodies, not because they offer superior lenses or superior image quality.

Trust me, I've seen it many many many times.

Anyways, as far as going with Nikon because of the bodies, that's just a product of what generation of what body is in production. Back when the D2H was Nikon's top performer and they had no FF offerings and most of their cameras (if not all?) used CCD sensors, then it was a no brainer to go with Canon.

Door swings both ways here and so given a year from now, things could be totally different. I think at this point though, there's several trade offs and that unless you're specifically shooting one type of photography or another that demands the one specific feature that the other brand doesn't have, that it's better to base the decision on other factors.

How many times have you heard that the Nikon D700's high ISO trumps the 5D MKII? Yet very few times do those people mention that both have very usable 6400 ISO and that if you downsize a 21mp file to 12mp, noise is less visible and the images are comparable.

I guess that's almost like trying to compare a 5DII to a D3X and upsizing the 5DII image to match the resolution of the D3X and complaining about how the upsized 5DII file is soft and shows artifacts...something like Ken Rockwell would do*

*did

 

[lbridges]

Do you honestly think that a company would warranty a product for 5 years if they thought they would lose money on the deal?

No, but I think they would warranty it for less time - 90 days, up to one year - if they didn't feel the need for a marketing ploy to attract customers.

Back to my car example. Do I think Hyundai is losing money with a ten year 100K mile warranty, NO. Do I think Acura/Lexus are losing money with a three year 36K mile waranty - NO. Do you think using the longer warranty is a marketing ploy, or do you think that Hyundai has better quality control than Acura/Lexus/Honda/Toyota?

We are talking about a company that desires a profit - extending the warranty is not a free item. I freely admit to being a fair to poor photographer, but I've been managing business efforts for over 20 years now - so while I'm not in the Japanese camera business, I think I do understand the business case.

At work, one side of the business pays for professional photographers to do their thing, frequently using our equipment - when we switched from film to digital, and the Hasselblad brand (that we used in the film day) didn't make the cut, I supported a switch to Nikon D3X bodies - this isn't a fanboy thing - just an attempt to insert some rationality into what looked to me as a fanboy discussion.

Thanks for entertaining my viewpoint.

 

[PhotoXopher]

I see what you're saying, but in my eyes they are willing to stand behind their product longer... marketing or not, it says a lot to me knowing I don't have to worry about my purchase going down the tubes for that much longer. Heck, I wish my Chevy Suburban or Escalade had the kind of warranty KIA and Hyundai are throwing out there - if they made a full size SUV I'd consider them next time around because of it.

 

[Dao]

Sometimes, that is what the company want the general public to believe. If they cannot use the fact to represent the quality of their products, they use other way. Extending the warranty is one of them I believe. The bottom line is, they need to push some sales. If they cannot push the product out of the door, warranty mean nothing.

 

[Mbnmac]

Man I thought I left this kind of fanboyism behind on the gaming forums.

Protip; these companies don't care about you, only your money so please drop any kind of emotional attachment you have to them, as it's quite clear most posters in this thread have more than a little bias.

 

[chip]

I have both Nikon and Canon equipment. I can tell you from personal experience that if you are the kind of person who likes to blow up pictures to examine every pixel - Nikon lenses are clearly sharper, hence the higher price. Nikon would not be able to get away with asking for the higher price otherwise. In terms of built quality again Nikon lenses are clearly better built and more solid and robust. Since you already have a Nikon D90 which is an excellent DX camera, I would stay with Nikon.

 

[MrLogic]

Man I thought I left this kind of fanboyism behind on the gaming forums.

Protip; these companies don't care about you, only your money so please drop any kind of emotional attachment you have to them.

Nikon Corp doesn't even pretend to care about me. Customer support is horrendous for the most part (if you happen to be an amateur). And I'm heavily invested in them. Long AF-S glass doesn't come cheap.

I have to applaud them for not giving a ****, though.

At the same time, I'd much rather deal with an American company.


edit: grammar

 

[lbridges]

I have both Nikon and Canon equipment. I can tell you from personal experience that if you are the kind of person who likes to blow up pictures to examine every pixel - Nikon lenses are clearly sharper, hence the higher price. Nikon would not be able to get away with asking for the higher price otherwise. In terms of built quality again Nikon lenses are clearly better built and more solid and robust. Since you already have a Nikon D90 which is an excellent DX camera, I would stay with Nikon.

Not disputing what you say, or the advice in the last sentence (which I think is good), but for your words to have any meaning (to me anyway) you have to state which equipment (body & lens) you are addressing in your comparison.

 

[inTempus]

Man I thought I left this kind of fanboyism behind on the gaming forums.

Protip; these companies don't care about you, only your money so please drop any kind of emotional attachment you have to them.

Nikon Corp doesn't even pretend to care about me. Customer support is horrendous for the most part (if you happen to be an amateur). And I'm heavily invested in them. Long AF-S glass doesn't come cheap.

I have to applaud them for not giving a ****, though.

At the same time, I'd much rather deal with an American company.

The one thing that really turned me off Nikon initially was this on their website:

What is Gray Market?

Nikon Inc. USA cannot provide any technical support or warranty service on Gray Market items. Additionally Nikon Inc. USA cannot perform any fee-based repair work on Gray Market items. Please do not contact Nikon Inc. USA for help with any Gray Market products. Please contact the reseller or importer of your Gray Market items for warranty and service information as well as software updates and downloads.

One of the first lenses I bought for my Canon was a 70-200 f/2.8L IS and I bought it used off the internet. I saved a considerable amount on the purchase. I've also purchased other lenses used online.

The problem with buying used Nikon gear is that if the original owner bought gray market gear from Adorama, B&H or some other place, you can't get your lenses serviced by Nikon USA even if you try to pay for it. I mean, it's not hard to find gray market lenses, almost every major retailer stocks them. B&H simply marks gray market lenses "imported" so I'm sure many people buy them for the cheaper price not knowing what it really means.

That scared me away since you really have no idea if the lens you bought is gray market or not since they're not marked as such. Most any other manufacturer will at least service your lens for you, for a fee, even if it is gray market. Canon will go a step further and will even warranty a gray market lens if you can produce a sales slip from an authorized retailer like Adorama, B&H or similar dealer.

 

[chyidean]

That scared me away since you really have no idea if the lens you bought is gray market or not since they're not marked as such.

I'm somewhat of a noob, and correct me if I'm wrong, but don't US Nikon lenses have a serial number starting with "US"?

 

[inTempus]

That scared me away since you really have no idea if the lens you bought is gray market or not since they're not marked as such.

I'm somewhat of a noob, and correct me if I'm wrong, but don't US Nikon lenses have a serial number starting with "US"?

Actually, I do believe the serial number does begin with US.