Amazon.com despicable online retailer, or most despicable online retailer?

[o hey tyler]

On top of lobbying excessive amounts in California to continue to not have to pay state sales tax, Amazon has went even lower.

Now Amazon wants potential e-commerce consumers to go INTO brick and mortar shops, scan an item using Amazon's smartphone app, only to get up to $5 off of your purchase (of $100 or more). This is absolutely outrageous and dirty. I was actually shaking with anger after reading this article. It is so underhanded, and messed up for a large retailer that OBVIOUSLY isn't hurting for cash would do something like this.

I know I won't be buying any of my gifts through Amazon. And after finding this out only moments ago, I feel a little angry at myself for linking to their website earlier in the day. I guess I'll have to go back and change that.

Amazon Launches Christmas Attack on Local Shops

 

[Overread]

I doubt it will work

I mean $5 off a $100 is nothing if I've already travelled to the shop and the item is sitting there right in front of me and I've already spent the travel money to get there. If I'm going to shop at Amazon I'm going to do it sitting at home, where I don't have to spend the travel money to - well - get there

As for if its underhanded or not - eh most shops (esp big ones) offer price matching if you find a product at the same price eleswhere for cheaper than they are currently selling for; so there is already a working model for one shop undercutting (or at least matching) anothers prices.
I do think that the Amazon method is somewhat cheeky in its method of use, however I can certainly see that as technology speeds up communications and as people carry that with them more we will see more of this instant price comparisons in the shopping environment. Sadly I've a feeling that the big shops are pushing and pushing and that our smaller retailers simply can't compete on the same level (but things have been going that way, sadly, for many years esp in the USA and UK and much of Europe .

 

[kassad]

Unfortunately I don't have any decent local shops with 200 miles. Last time I even bothered with them was when I went to buy a tripod. I knew what I wanted and was willing to pay extra to support a local store. The only store store willing to get a 055xprob wanted more than msrp and a $25 fee for them to ship it to their store. Mind you I would have to drive two hours back to them when it finally came in. To add insult to injury they kept trying to push crappy sunpak tripods on me. Screw that, I went to Amazon and bought it from Adorama for a hell of lot cheaper with free shipping and had it in my hands in three days. Local stores need to earn my business.

 

[o hey tyler]

I doubt it will work

I mean $5 off a $100 is nothing if I've already travelled to the shop and the item is sitting there right in front of me and I've already spent the travel money to get there. If I'm going to shop at Amazon I'm going to do it sitting at home, where I don't have to spend the travel money to - well - get there

As for if its underhanded or not - eh most shops (esp big ones) offer price matching if you find a product at the same price eleswhere for cheaper than they are currently selling for; so there is already a working model for one shop undercutting (or at least matching) anothers prices.
I do think that the Amazon method is somewhat cheeky in its method of use, however I can certainly see that as technology speeds up communications and as people carry that with them more we will see more of this instant price comparisons in the shopping environment. Sadly I've a feeling that the big shops are pushing and pushing and that our smaller retailers simply can't compete on the same level (but things have been going that way, sadly, for many years esp in the USA and UK and much of Europe .

Pricematching is entirely different. That's at least logical.

Paying consumers to go out to brick and mortar stores for $5 off their order? That's not logical or morally upstanding.

What many people don't realize is that if they purchased 10% of all their goods from local retailers or brick and mortar stores, the economy would be in a totally different place.

 

[MLeeK]

Amazon just is... well Amazon.
It's like Wal Mart putting all of the local "general stores" out of business. It is what it is and we aren't going to stop it...
I am guilty of feeding the big pig here... Take Adorama and B&H for example. It's to the point that they ARE the camera retailers. There is no more corner store with cameras in stock to go purchase. I don't even think there is a camera store in Erie PA anymore-not one of any fair reputation. Best Buy. That's not going to happen! Hell, in Buffalo NY there is nowhere to even rent a lens because no one can compete with the on-line rentals. That's a pretty good sized city!

Now consider Adorama in particular-if you have ever been to their actual store front? It's really disappointing. It's about the size of the old corner drug stores. Not much in there to see. However if you want to see something they have one hell of a system that will bring it up from below or down from the above floors while you are with a salesman. MOST of their business? Isn't even there at the store. It's a formality! It's all internet and warehoused.

It's the same thing... Do others make giant blunders like that with their marketing ideas? Sure. Like Nikon's blunder with their lenses not that long ago. They survived and no one is putting them out of business or even putting a hurt into them...

Besides... It costs me more than $5 in gas to start up my car, drive to the appropriate store and scan the tag. And while I am in the mall I am probably going to at least get a pretzel and a soda as well as a few other things I happen to see. SO... Who is actually going to benefit or get hurt by this crappy piece of back stabbing? Not really anyone. It's just really sh1tty ethics. And we all know that if you have the sh1ttiest ethics in the world you can become the President of The United States of America and the largest figurehead in the free world, so... Like I said. It's not going to matter one whit what we think or do.

I fed Amazon this year. It's easy for me to send my grand kids presents by way of ordering in my jammies and having it sent directly to them. Will I change my mind next year? Nope. It's a HUGE cost savings to me. I didn't drive to the store ($5), buy the present AND wrapping paper ($10), wrap the present, put it in a shipping box and then ship it to them (another $20.) That's $35!! Not to mention the 10 other things that would have jumped in my cart while I was at the store and the added calories that would land on my a$$ from the candy bar and bottle of wine I'd need after I made that trip to the store this holiday season.

Yes. I totally agree with you being outraged for all of the local mom and pop shops. Can I change the idiots who thought that was brilliant? Nope. Is the outrage enough to make me spend $35, a bag of reeses peanut butter cups and a bottle of wine more? Nope. Sorry!

 

[o hey tyler]

Amazon just is... well Amazon.
It's like Wal Mart putting all of the local "general stores" out of business. It is what it is and we aren't going to stop it...
I am guilty of feeding the big pig here... Take Adorama and B&H for example. It's to the point that they ARE the camera retailers. There is no more corner store with cameras in stock to go purchase. I don't even think there is a camera store in Erie PA anymore-not one of any fair reputation. Best Buy. That's not going to happen! Hell, in Buffalo NY there is nowhere to even rent a lens because no one can compete with the on-line rentals. That's a pretty good sized city!

Now consider Adorama in particular-if you have ever been to their actual store front? It's really disappointing. It's about the size of the old corner drug stores. Not much in there to see. However if you want to see something they have one hell of a system that will bring it up from below or down from the above floors while you are with a salesman. MOST of their business? Isn't even there at the store. It's a formality! It's all internet and warehoused.

It's the same thing... Do others make giant blunders like that with their marketing ideas? Sure. Like Nikon's blunder with their lenses not that long ago. They survived and no one is putting them out of business or even putting a hurt into them...

Besides... It costs me more than $5 in gas to start up my car, drive to the appropriate store and scan the tag. And while I am in the mall I am probably going to at least get a pretzel and a soda as well as a few other things I happen to see. SO... Who is actually going to benefit or get hurt by this crappy piece of back stabbing? Not really anyone. It's just really sh1tty ethics. And we all know that if you have the sh1ttiest ethics in the world you can become the President of The United States of America and the largest figurehead in the free world, so... Like I said. It's not going to matter one whit what we think or do.

I fed Amazon this year. It's easy for me to send my grand kids presents by way of ordering in my jammies and having it sent directly to them. Will I change my mind next year? Nope. It's a HUGE cost savings to me. I didn't drive to the store ($5), buy the present AND wrapping paper ($10), wrap the present, put it in a shipping box and then ship it to them (another $20.) That's $35!! Not to mention the 10 other things that would have jumped in my cart while I was at the store and the added calories that would land on my a$$ from the candy bar and bottle of wine I'd need after I made that trip to the store this holiday season.

Yes. I totally agree with you being outraged for all of the local mom and pop shops. Can I change the idiots who thought that was brilliant? Nope. Is the outrage enough to make me spend $35, a bag of reeses peanut butter cups and a bottle of wine more? Nope. Sorry!

I'm not suggesting that anyone buy exclusively from B&M shops. I am suggesting that if people spent 10% of their money at locally owned establishments, their local economy would be much different. Amazon isn't the ONLY ONLINE RETAILER there is, either. I would personally look elsewhere online, rather than Amazon.

I was also unaware that $35 is a huge cost saver, but I suppose that's all relative.

 

[Overread]

Pricematching is entirely different. That's at least logical.

Paying consumers to go out to brick and mortar stores for $5 off their order? That's not logical or morally upstanding.

What many people don't realize is that if they purchased 10% of all their goods from local retailers or brick and mortar stores, the economy would be in a totally different place.

The moral crime is only that it might put some of Amazon's own market researchers out of work - big shops can afford to pay for a whole department who's job will be to monitor and inspect the competitions prices; both with software auto price matching online and with field agents checking out the prices in big shops.

Sadly I can agree that if more consumers supported smaller shops things would be better - the problem is that govenments and the highstreet have worked toward the big shop big sales model; which pushes your smaller retailer out into the seedy areas of town or out into the more fringe areas well away from the highstreet. Furthermore, at the basic level, when buying the exact same product most people go with whatever they can find cheapest - got nothing to do with modern times there, people have always been like that; until they reach such a point in income that they are able to pay for higher quality over functionality of the product.

 

[MLeeK]

If the gift costs me $100 why would I want to spend $135? Yes, $35 is a large chunk of change when you consider that. And when you think about the fact that each of the 2 different places I am shipping to has multiple people that I cannot buy for all in one store... that's a significant chunk of my Christmas budget!

 

[DennyCrane]

Nothing new here... "brick and mortar" stores have offered to honor competitors coupons, and even discount them further. They also have traditionally matched and beat competitors prices. How is this gambit by Amazon any different? Frankly, I don't think there's anything noble in paying more for something simply because I had to drive somewhere to make the purchase. Not in this economy. And as for Amazon's dispute with California, there are far more chilling aspects here that you're not seeing in the media... like the fact that the government is trying to circumvent the Constitution and tax interstate sales. Article 1, Section 9 states "No tax or duty shall be laid on articles exported from any state." The government is trying to sneak these taxes in under the commerce clause... an often abused section of the Constitution. So, hopefully, this mess will end up in the Supreme Court and the Constitution upheld.

 

[o hey tyler]

Nothing new here... "brick and mortar" stores have offered to honor competitors coupons, and even discount them further. They also have traditionally matched and beat competitors prices. How is this gambit by Amazon any different?

Because Amazon isn't in any impending danger of going out of business due to the Brick and Mortar stores? Local businesses have had to do what they can to keep afloat in the economy. It's not like it's making them money to honor competitors coupons. They're taking WAAAAY more of a hit than Amazon would for the "$5 off $100 if you scan a Mom & Pop Item and then buy it from us" ploy.

And as for Amazon's dispute with California, there are far more chilling aspects here that you're not seeing in the media... like the fact that the government is trying to circumvent the Constitution and tax interstate sales. Article 1, Section 9 states "No tax or duty shall be laid on articles exported from any state." The government is trying to sneak these taxes in under the commerce clause... an often abused section of the Constitution. So, hopefully, this mess will end up in the Supreme Court and the Constitution upheld.

Frankly, I think Amazon should be paying taxes. The Constitution wasn't written with E-commerce in mind.

 

[MLeeK]

I do believe that Amazon should be paying sales tax on anything that they sell in California. If they sell it and ship to Arizona? It's subject to AZ tax either paid by the consumer on their tax return (supposedly) or collected by the retailer if they have a presence in that state and submitted to the state.
Really, what is Amazon's big deal? THEY don't pay the sales tax, the consumer does. If the state wants them to collect it they collect it from the consumer and pay it to the state.
Now if it is a matter of paying sales tax on things they sell and ship out of the state? I agree that they should not owe CA tax on it.
As you can see... I am not quite up to date on the dispute there...

 

[Buckster]

I feel for the brick and morters, and I understand that if they can't make it, it's ultimately bad for everyone in the long run.

But I'm pragmatic. It's not going to stop just because I decide to pay higher prices for the short duration until the brick and morters close their doors for good. All I'm doing is paying more out of my own pocket to delay it in a fairly insignificant way for a very short time.

If you really think you have any chance in a camel's ear of stopping this tidal wave or even slowing it down, I've got an excercise for you: Look at a Walmart parking lot - any Walmart parking lot. Here's your task: Get all those people to stop going there and pay more to shop at mom and pops instead. Feel free to use any means you like. Plead, beg, threaten, appeal to their sensibilities, whatever you like. Try, try and try some more, day after day after day after day, week after week after week. When you figure out that it's useless, then you'll understand that - wait for it - it's inevitable and you can't stop it.

Now then, armed with that little piece of reality, all you can do is what's best for you. For most of us, in the present economy, that means saving money wherever we can, whenever we can.

As for their ethics, I don't see anything at all unethical about beating your competitor's prices any way you can figure out to do it, as long as it's legal. That's just life in the business lane.

As for the law, it is what it is and that's for the lawyers to deal with. When there are laws I don't like, I write to my representatives, start petitions, etc. I do what I can, but complaining about it and stomping my feet in protest isn't something I'm much interested in - it doesn't change anything.

Amazon, Walmart, Home Depot, Lowes, Best Buy and the other big warehouse merchants meet my needs, and they do it cheaper and better than anyone else selling the goods that I want or need, when I want or need them, for a price that nobody else can beat. They can't be stopped, they're not going away, the mom and pop shops can't compete, and that's just the way reality hits the fan, like it or not - might as well get used to it.

YMMV

 

[CCericola]

There are a great many B&M stores that sell merchandize on Amazon. So by boycotting Amazon you are also boycotting all the B&M merchants that pay Amazon to sell and ship goods for them.

 

[Derrel]

I'm giving Amazon "the finger"...