being too nice

[Flash Harry]

I've been following the Benjikan thread, "30mp sort of" , I do agree that different techniques need to be explored by photographers in their pursuit of incredible imagery, in the first instance this is how photography has developed to the standards we now achieve, experiment.

I understand where he's coming from although along with other posters I don't swallow this theory as a layered image will always produce more pixels, however this doesn't mean its of higher res or, for that matter, enable the creation of a much larger image.

Now the thread has been locked down due to the critique becoming a little enflamed, but what you, (Mods) need to realise is that constructive critisism without the slagging is the way foreward.

In this industry, during training and university my own and other students work was constantly harshly critisized, from the shooting through to production stages, mistakes were pointed out and work always redone before the final image was accepted as correct, in exposure, subject, lighting, contrast etc etc. Basically, we learnt by our mistakes.

I find fora, such as this one are always trying to be PC or not too harsh on others work, this has led to a dramatic drop in quality of work and also the amount of garbage togs who are presently offering professional services in this field, having little or in fact, no knowledge of the medium, but, who have produced a few decent shots in easy lighting situations.

Now, we cant all be professionals, we can all improve though and the way to do this is to listen to constructive critisism, locking down a thread because you see something you dont like is like the ostrich hiding its head in the sand, the problem remains, if a post is obscene or directly offensive, remove it, but fair and impartial advice or critique should be applauded, then maybe, just maybe some of the fora will improve to a decent status.H

 

[LaFoto]

Since your post here, Harry, is in direct feedback to how this forum is being run, I moved it to the Suggestions and Feedback Forum, ok?

 

[Flash Harry]

OK, I was unsure whether here, or in the other or the critique section as the thread relates to all three.

 

[EBphotography]

That thread wasn't locked because people were sharing their opinions, or being Un-PC, it was locked because there were personal attacks on other members. I think you'll find that constructive criticism is encouraged here, but in a more respectful tone, and without calling upon a persons motives for posting, etc. Mods feel free to better explain this one.

 

[Digital Matt]

I don't know about you, but in all of the critiques I've been a part of, which were harsh, none of them involved personal attacks, or calling someone else's ideas BS. There are a few members here who regularly get out of hand and lack any tact or grace in expressing their ideas or feelings. That thread that was locked had spiraled wickedly out of hand to the point where you had to wade through a sea of insults to find the glimmer of anything useful.

 

[EOS_JD]

I don't know about you, but in all of the critiques I've been a part of, which were harsh, none of them involved personal attacks, or calling someone else's ideas BS. There are a few members here who regularly get out of hand and lack any tact or grace in expressing their ideas or feelings. That thread that was locked had spiraled wickedly out of hand to the point where you had to wade through a sea of insults to find the glimmer of anything useful.

I agree. We can all take CC and it should be positively encouraged but it should be done in a respectful way.

We all want to learn, we all have varying degrees of experience and knowledge and a large range of views on many different subjects. Keep it respectful and you will gain the respect too of your fellow members.

 

[Flash Harry]

Personally I have not attacked anyone, but if an article or photograph is really an opinion, or a garbage image then lets call a spade a spade, namby pamby niceness to each and everyone may be ideal in fairy story land but we are presently in the real world and garbage photography reigns supreme, lets talk straight, whether a pro opinion or trash photo, if its rubbish then lets tell them.

 

[Alpha]

My first posts, although critical and very skeptical, were not meant to be a personal attack. As I stated a few times, I think that Benjamin is a very good photographer. I shouldn't have blown up the way that I did towards the end of that thread, and I apologize for that. But I will say that it was only after criticism of Benjamin's technique and the way he presented it was met by him with arrogance and down-talking that I became enraged.

 

[Flash Harry]

PS. and if Benji is/has/was a pro then he'll be able to take the same sort of crap that all trained pro's have had, and, he wouldn't be making false statements regarding this medium.

 

[Corry]

PS. and if Benji is/has/was a pro then he'll be able to take the same sort of crap that all trained pro's have had, and, he wouldn't be making false statements regarding this medium.

Weather he can take it or not isn't REALLY the issue.

The issue is that we cannot let disrespect and personal attacks run rampant on the site. How does that look to new or potential members? What if that was the first thread that person decided to read after finding our site? Why would they stick around when their first impression is that TPF is a hostile environment, where that sort of behavior is condoned and not squelched?

Max, thank you for apologizing, it is appreciated....But do me a favor....take that apology a step further, and next time you become 'enraged'....step away from the keyboard, and reply when your head is once again clear.

 

[benjikan]

PS. and if Benji is/has/was a pro then he'll be able to take the same sort of crap that all trained pro's have had, and, he wouldn't be making false statements regarding this medium.

No false statements here. Just a little technique I do employ on occasion. Yes I am still a practicing pro who was officially sponsored by Canon, France up until about 2 months ago. I am now officially sponsored by Pentax, France.

 

[morydd]

In defense of the forum as a whole, this is actually one of the most civilized forums I've been on. There's very little in the way of pettyness, and the mods are surprisingly good at not abusing the power they have. They're also good at killing a thread before it gets out of hand wheil also managing to not kill a thread just because it might get out of hand. (The "Do you own a gun" thread is a great example)

That said, there are great amatures and horribles pros out there, and this thread isn't going to change that one way or the other. Saying "This photo is utter crap." isn't going to help anyone get better, and people who think they can make it as a pro, are going to think that regardless. The market will tell them if they can or not. All art is subjective too, what I think is a brilliant photo, you may think is a dull waste of time. So it doesn't hurt to be polite.

I'm rambling here, but it's really more me saying thanks to the mods and the people on the forum who manage to make this a great place to visit day after day.

 

[Corry]

In defense of the forum as a whole, this is actually one of the most civilized forums I've been on. There's very little in the way of pettyness, and the mods are surprisingly good at not abusing the power they have. They're also good at killing a thread before it gets out of hand wheil also managing to not kill a thread just because it might get out of hand. (The "Do you own a gun" thread is a great example)

That said, there are great amatures and horribles pros out there, and this thread isn't going to change that one way or the other. Saying "This photo is utter crap." isn't going to help anyone get better, and people who think they can make it as a pro, are going to think that regardless. The market will tell them if they can or not. All art is subjective too, what I think is a brilliant photo, you may think is a dull waste of time. So it doesn't hurt to be polite.

I'm rambling here, but it's really more me saying thanks to the mods and the people on the forum who manage to make this a great place to visit day after day.

Morydd, thank you for that great post. It is nice when someone takes the time to understand the intricacies and difficulties of moderating a public forum with thousands of members.

There is a fine line between over moderating and under moderating, and sometimes, some situations can be difficult to call.

Trust me, there have been MANY times where my gut reaction is to put an end to a thread immediately, because it's bound to get out of control....but I, as well as my fellow mods, do like to give our members the benefit of the doubt.

However, when members continually make us regret that benefit of the doubt...it makes our job a lot harder.

We strive to keep things as civilized as we possibly can....for 4 years now, thousands of members have been able to give constructive criticism and valuable information without insults or personal attacks. Nothing in this world has changed to make that an impossible status quo.

You think it's bad? Great....tell me what makes it bad in your opinion, and tell me how you think it can be made better.

You think what I said is wrong? Great...tell me why, back it up with facts if applicable, and do it with respect.

 

[Alpha]

Running a large forum is hard work, and I can appreciate why you guys locked that thread, as I had gotten out of hand.

And in the larger vein of this particular topic, I think that Flash Harry made some excellent points.

 

[EBphotography]

Well said to both Morydd and Corry.