Bill Henson aftermath

[Senor Hound]

I don't know anyone from Japan (except Bifurcator, and he is really cool). But I think we should refrain from labeling an entire country as having pedophilic (?) tendencies. That's a hasty generalization, and it does not add anything to the discussion other than to hurt people's feelings. I can understand trying to help someone see your perspective, but namecalling only makes people retreat mentally and emotionally, both of which are counterproductive to the discussion.

The real question of child nudity is where you draw the line. I think we can all agree it is VERY difficult to determine whether something is artistic or obscene (or this argument wouldn't be happening).

So how can a government determine what child nudity is artistic or pornographic? From a legal standpoint, it would need to fit a written description so it could be properly enforced.

The easiest way is to ban all child nudity like the US has done. But another option is to have a review board decide. The US does this with their movies by using the ratings suggested by the MPAA. But many find this system horribly flawed.

So, to everyone who thinks this photo is artistic: How do you make a universal rule that allows some nudity and not other nudity? How can you make these situations as black and white as possible, or at least clear-cut enough to be able to properly enforce that which we would all find obscene?

For the record, I feel this photo is artistic, but I also have no clue how to legally allow this photo and not one of questionable intent. And truthfully, if a government could not adequately enforce the ban of child pornography due to, "artistic" loopholes, I'd rather see photos like this be banned then see innocent children traumatized and abused.

 

[Samriel]

This whole post has really nothing to do with photography, but hell, I...just...can't...restrain...myself from taking part in these quasi political discussions. Please forgive me :meh:

The Japanese are sick with stuff - it is their idea of normal.

That's called "a different culture". And what you are doing is called "ethnocentric observation", and seems to be quite the boom in W-DC, I hear. Quite a few people consider that to be a much bigger problem then pedophilia.
By the way, there was no word (in the proper Western sense) for pedophilia or sexual harassment in Japan until the 70s - they have a different culture concerning these things (and many others...), and as long as they do not directly bother you or your children with it, why do you care? Do you want to now how many of your habits seem uncomprehensible and disguisting to the average Japanese? Yes, different moral standards are bad... VERY BAAAD...

But I think we should refrain from labeling an entire country as having pedophilic (?) tendencies.

It is not neccessarily incorrect to say that a culture has certain tendencies (even pedophilic ones), the problem is taking and objective position - what is objective in cases like these? This is an extremely difficult topic, which can be easily solved and understood by living in a foreign culture for at least year or so. Anyway, better to discuss it in with some hot sake.:coffee:

What agency was that again please?

Yes, I would REALLY like to know that...

 

[Senor Hound]

It is not neccessarily incorrect to say that a culture has certain tendencies (even pedophilic ones), the problem is taking and objective position - what is objective in cases like these? This is an extremely difficult topic, which can be easily solved and understood by living in a foreign culture for at least year or so. Anyway, better to discuss it in with some hot sake.

I believe there is a problem with saying a country has a certain tendency when you don't back the claim up with any sort of evidence. And a country that helps publish magazines that contain underage nudity is not the same thing as a country that helps support adults having sex with minors. This is too big of a jump, IMO to consider it, "evidence." And I'm sure more than one person of Japanese heritage would be offended by this hasty generalization the poster made about the Japanese being, "sick." So, I still have to say I don't feel its productive to the argument. But thank you for sharing your opinion

Sorry to derail. Continue with Bill Henson...

 

[Bifurcator]

Well this thread by it's very nature is nothing but political. I also think it's something every photographer needs to consider before we find our cameras being treated like hand-guns - as indeed they already are in some parts of the USA. Think I'm kidding? NYC passed (or maybe just enacted it without any legislative process I dunno) an ordinance that requires you to obtain a permit to carry/use a camera in any public area and cops are selectively seising equipment without receipt and additionally making occasional arrests. It's bogus and gets kicked out of court (for now) but that doesn't get you back your cameras in some cases nor spare you the arrest record and hassle.

But I was jumped on last time I answered a question with a politically toned answer so I better stop huh?

 

[Garbz]

We need a "please don't feed the troll" emoticon.

 

[Bifurcator]

 

[Battou]

A few days ago I put the final nail in the coffin, but I'll repete it for the plastic immitation users who seem to think this is a good place to dump their views on the Henson issue and leave with out bothering to actually read the OP.

...people in the sports groups mentioned in the article in the OP think that they can just tell parents they can't have cameras at their kids football games and what not. They are ignorant morons who buy into the hype that every person with a camera is an unnecessary threat. For god sakes there is absolutely no corrilation between the Henson inncodent and youth sporting events....just where the hell do they get off saying there is... Oh yeah it was all over the news, I forgot.

Granted yes I understand that occured outside the US, but that last fact remains the same reguardless.

And now before we get any more of of those extremeists trolls who think this is about the Henson incodent, Lock this thread, It's over.

 

[Bifurcator]

Henson... heh!!!! Because of him we all have to suffer now!

 

[Bifurcator]

I was strolling through the arcade today and saw the above. I immediately thought of this discussion topic and how it's only "western" culture (or some people in it) that is so messed up.

 

[RockDawg]

I saw this today. It's not directly related to Bill Henson, but it's related to the topic if this thread.

Father-of-three branded a 'pervert' - for photographing his own children in public park:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...vert--photographing-children-public-park.html

Utterly ridiculous!

 

[Battou]

I saw this today. It's not directly related to Bill Henson, but it's related to the topic if this thread.



Utterly ridiculous!

True, absolutely rediculous

 

[Battou]

I thought I would share a question in reply to that last link provided form PL's forum.

Would a woman photographer face same problems as a man? It seems all instances involve men.

NO, not likely. I often face this very issue with my occupation. I am one of very few male child care providers. I hear the lines all the time: "Men are more sexually driven than women", "If you where a man I'd be worried", "Men don't look at children the same way" and the like.

It's a stereotype about males being sexually preoccupied or some bull**** like that, apparently we men only think of sex and have to pervert everything we look at into something sexual. On top of that it seems the percentage on men who get caught in activity of that nature out weigh women considerably, enough to the point where many people fail to realize any women get cought molesting children at all.

So yeah I fully believe there is some gender bias to these events.

 

[nynfortoo]

I saw this today. It's not directly related to Bill Henson, but it's related to the topic if this thread.



Utterly ridiculous!

I would strongly suggest you take everything from the Daily Mail with a bucket of salt. This paper has a great tendency to make mountains out of microscopic dots.

Its readers and staff are renowned for being hysterical idiots.