Boom Mic Advice?

[Trekie015]

Heelllooooo!

So I have a new T3i and ultimately want to shoot short films. Obviously this requires something other than the on board mic, so my question is:

What are the best unidirectional condenser shotgun mics with an XLR output that is good for capturing dialogue both inside and outside, all for under $200.

A tall order I know, but it's bound to exist somewhere. I was also wondering how the booming setup would work, I figure at the very least, the mic XLR output could go through an XLR to 1/8th stereo adapter cord and directly into the camera (or through a splitter for monitoring then the cam.) Later on though, I could have the mic hooked up XLR to XLR to a mixer or something and be monitored and adjusted and from there XLR to 1/8th into the camera. I have a Tascam US-122 so this could provide phantom power, but the only output is analog...

I'm basically just a young, broke-ish student who wants to make awesome films so any help would be great!

Thanks in advance,
~Daniel

 

[brunerww]

Heelllooooo!

So I have a new T3i and ultimately want to shoot short films. Obviously this requires something other than the on board mic, so my question is:

What are the best unidirectional condenser shotgun mics with an XLR output that is good for capturing dialogue both inside and outside, all for under $200.

A tall order I know, but it's bound to exist somewhere. I was also wondering how the booming setup would work, I figure at the very least, the mic XLR output could go through an XLR to 1/8th stereo adapter cord and directly into the camera (or through a splitter for monitoring then the cam.) Later on though, I could have the mic hooked up XLR to XLR to a mixer or something and be monitored and adjusted and from there XLR to 1/8th into the camera. I have a Tascam US-122 so this could provide phantom power, but the only output is analog...

I'm basically just a young, broke-ish student who wants to make awesome films so any help would be great!

Thanks in advance,
~Daniel

Hi again Daniel - Congrats on the new camera and welcome to the world of digital filmmaking! Part of the challenge with the T3i is the noisy audio preamps, which cannot be disabled (as the T2i's and 60D's can) by the Magic Lantern firmware hack (see this chart at the Magic Lantern Wiki).

To get clean sound, your best investment would be an external recorder to go along with your condenser mic - and syncing your sound in post. Because of the T3i's preamp problem, going straight into the camera with an XLR to 3.5mm adapter is not advisable.

In my view, the best value for money external recorder is the 4-track Tascam DR-40 with XLR inputs ($142 new and $135 used at Amazon Warehouse Deals). I have one of these and it is terrific.

And the best value for money cardioid condenser mic is the $179 Azden SGM-1X. For $66 more, you can get the SGM-1X mic, shock mount, 8' boom pole and 25' of XLR cable for $245.

In my personal setup, I run the output of the Tascam to my camera's mic input with a $27 Sescom impedance matching cable - that way I end up with two tracks - a high quality track on the recorder and a 'scratch' track on the camera (just in case).

Hope this is helpful,

Bill

 

[Helen B]

Don't you think that the Audio Technica AT897 is worth the extra over the Azden? It has much lower self noise (17 dB vs 29 dB, which is a lot) and it can accept 48 V phantom, which I don't think the Azden can. The AT897 is a great mic for the price.

For a recorder is there anything you can use in the field with your USB mixer? An iPhone or Android phone or an iPad with a recording app like FiRe?

 

[Trekie015]

Thanks for the replies!

So I was looking at the SGM-1X beforehand, and it does seem good, though the AT897 may be out of my price range, I may just go for it, any opinions on the comparison of these?

The Tascam DR-40 is definitely the one of choice it appears, based on price and function. Would WAV or MP3 be a better format?

How about field mixers? Would my US-122 be sufficient, even with the analog output? Any recommendations?

So having all of these at the same time currently sets me over my budget, of which there really is none, so while as soon as I can, I'll get the DR-40, would it be acceptable to route the audio into something like audacity to start? Or am I going about it the wrong way? Obviously the mic is a necessity, but will I require the DR-40 first, the mixer, or must they all be implemented at the same time?

Thanks as always,
~Daniel

 

[Helen B]

Just for confirmation: you have nothing that could accept the USB out from the US-122? (It does have USB out, doesn't it?) No iOS or Android device, no laptop? Any way that you could delay having to get a recorder.

What video and audio software do you have?

 

[Trekie015]

Oh, yes, it does so I could record to my laptop from there. The software I have audio related, is audacity :/ and LMMS, which can't record audio. Is there something better than audacity out there for free?

 

[Helen B]

Doesn't your laptop have a basic recorder as part of the bundled software? What is wrong with Audacity? (I have never used it.) If you are recording an already-digitized signal the recording software doesn't have to do much except wrap the unbroken data stream into the right file format. You need to check that the US-122 / laptop combination can record glitch-free. You should be able to test that using any input into the US-122 so you can do it before you buy the shotgun mic.

 

[Trekie015]

Thanks, yeah, I'll definitely be testing that. You're right about any recording platform being capable. What format audio though? Do you have any thoughts abut the quality and applications concerning the AT897 and the SGM-1X? Like you said, lower self noise and phantom, anything else of note?

 

[brunerww]

...So I was looking at the SGM-1X beforehand, and it does seem good, though the AT897 may be out of my price range, I may just go for it, any opinions on the comparison of these?

The AT897 is clearly the better mic (sensitivity, frequency response), and only $40 more than the SGM-1X. That said, most people won't be able to hear the difference. You can save a little money by buying used.

The Tascam DR-40 is definitely the one of choice it appears, based on price and function. Would WAV or MP3 be a better format?

Definitely .wav

How about field mixers? Would my US-122 be sufficient, even with the analog output? Any recommendations?

Use the 4 independent levels in the DR-40 as a 'mixer' to start with. You can get a real field mixer later.

See this video example from B&H (starting at 2:38) to see what can be done with just the recorder and no mixer: https://vimeo.com/35714629

So having all of these at the same time currently sets me over my budget, of which there really is none, so while as soon as I can, I'll get the DR-40, would it be acceptable to route the audio into something like audacity to start? Or am I going about it the wrong way? Obviously the mic is a necessity, but will I require the DR-40 first, the mixer, or must they all be implemented at the same time?

A mic, some cable, and the DR-40 (plus a few batteries and an SD card) are all you need to record a near-pro quality 24-bit 96kHz soundtrack in the field. I would keep things as simple as possible (which is sometimes a challenge in this business )

By the way, there is a $15 Tascam holiday rebate (until December 26th) on the DR-40.

Cheers, and again, hope this is helpful.

Bill

 

[Trekie015]

Once again, thanks so much, you people have been so helpful.

So the setup options I see are:

mic ––xlr--> US-122 --xlr--> computer
....................|
............. headphones to monitor

or

mic ––xlr--> mixer --xlr--> DR-40 --xlr--> cam for backup and sync
....................|............or......|
.............. headphones to monitor

or

mic ––xlr--> DR-40 --xlr--> cam for backup and sync
....................|
.............. headphones to monitor

Thoughts on these setups? The second would be ultimately best, but would the first suffice until I get the DR-40?

 

[Trekie015]

 

[Helen B]

So the setup options I see are:

mic ––xlr--> US-122 --xlr--> computer
....................|
............. headphones to monitor

That would be a USB cable from the US-122 to the laptop. You could also run an analog cable from the US-122 to the camera, if necessary with a line-mic pad (attenuator) to bring the signal down to mic level.

or

mic ––xlr--> mixer --xlr--> DR-40 --xlr--> cam for backup and sync
....................|............or......|
.............. headphones to monitor

I don't know what the output from the DR-40 is, but whatever the cable to the camera is it would probably have to have the line-mic pad in it (it's not really impedance balancing, because the camera pre-amp acts as a bridge).

You should always try to avoid lossy compression when making an original recording, so no mp3 or AAC.

I suspect that the biggest difference you would notice between the AT and the Azden mic would be because of the very high self noise of the Azden - it is likely to be noticeable when recording fairly weak sources, for example when you can't get the mic in close because of the wideness of the shot. I've never used the Azden, or any mic with such a high self noise, however. The AT897 is popular with students, and it is what I usually recommend for low budgets. Sensitivity is an issue when you are using poor pre-amps, and the small difference in frequency range is not going to be a big issue in most cases. Being able to use 48 V phantom power usually improves the mics performance over battery power, if the phantom is up to spec.

 

[brunerww]

Daniel - I like the bottom picture. Close to my setup, which works very well for me:



Helen - yes, it is indeed a 35dB attenuation line-mic pad cable. Sescom makes them specifically for this application.

Bill

 

[Trekie015]

Great, thanks so much guys! Before I buy stuff I'm going to save a bit more money and research how to use the DR-40 effectively, in the meantime, I'll use the first setup as the recording to the PC is flawless. I'm sure I'll have more questions later but thanks. You guys have been really helpful and I hope that people like me in the future will find this thread and the awesome help within.
Thanks!

 

[Helen B]

I'm glad that you found this helpful. I'll close by saying that mics are a bit like lenses in that a good mic now will still be a good mic after a few camera upgrades. When I began to buy mics a long time ago I spent way more than I really should have done, but they are still great mics now, many recorder and camera upgrades later. The mics I used with a worn out ex-BBC Uher Report recording to quarter inch tape running at 15 ips then syncing on a Steenbeck are still being used by feeding AES/EBU into an SDI stream.

You can see a lot of camera demos on the web showing how super-fantastic the latest camera is, but the sound quality doesn't match. That's probably as much to do with poor understanding and technique as it is with poor equipment, of course - so spend time learning about good recording practice. There are very few cases when an on-camera mic is the right way to go, and people seem to forget that a shotgun generally has some sensitivity straight backwards. Crossed cardioids are temptingly simple to use, not least because they are built on to many low-end recorders (like the DR-40), but they are rarely the best option, especially if the stereo track is ever mixed to mono.