Canon 650D or Nikon D3200?

[thisisbleep]

I am looking to buy my first DSLR and cannot decide which one I should choose, because I know that once I pick one brand it will be expensive to change later. I am slightly biased towards Canon currently, because my roommate owns a 500D and I have had a chance to use it. Previously I have also spent a small amount of time looking at one of my dad’s work Nikon cameras, but it was over a year ago so I cannot remember the model number or any specifics (probably a D300 or D700). I have excluded other camera companies and lens manufacturers, but please correct me if I am wrong.

I know that no specific details are known about the 650D yet, but the 600D will be very similar in design and the results that I would expect to achieve.

I plan on buying the 18-135mm, 50mm prime and 70-300mm lenses, so that I have a good range to work with. I would like a wide-angled lens but I cannot justify the cost for how often I would use it.

Canon:
EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS II *
EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS USM
EF 50mm f/1.8 II
(* Rumours of a refresh at the same time as the 650D release, which I would purchase with the body.)

Nikon:
AF-S DX 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6G IF-ED
AF-S FX 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6G IF-ED VR
AF FX 50mm f/1.8D

Nikon has the auto/manual focus without a switch to change between modes and the 18-135mm lens has the silent motor, but there are rumours of the Canon 18-135mm getting it with the refresh. The Nikon will also have a much larger megapixel count, assuming the 650D keeps an 18MP sensor, which would help with cropping. I am not bothered by a touch screen or wi-fi in the Canon.

In the future I see myself owning the equivalent level of a Canon 7D or Nikon D300, a high-end amateur camera. I would not be able to justify the cost of a 5D or equivalent, so full frame is not a goal but it should not be entirely ruled out because of rumours about the cheap full frame cameras which will be released later.

The vast majority of my photography will be from natural light, so the best camera would be versatile in natural light, but reviews say both Canon and Nikon fare well. I have no intention of looking into using external flash yet. I would like more controls on the camera, such as two dials on the Canon for manual settings, but understand that the low end model will not come with everything that I want.

Two questions:

1. Which camera is better for me as a beginner?
2. Which brand is better for me in the future?
3. Should I get the next camera up and not the 70-300mm lens? I would still get the lens, but it would not be straight away. Is the next level up (e.g. 60D/70D) worth it? Would the extra 50% cost of the body justify the gains in what I get?

Please let me know if I should elaborate further on anything or if you have any questions. I appreciate any help that you can give, this will be an expensive decision (I do not own a car or house yet).

 

[StandingBear1983]

One must try both brands and see what is more suitable for them, and most important, does your father have any old Nikon Lenses you can use? - have you thought about that?. - if so that's a BIG plus for going Nikon, then the D7000 will be able to use old nikon lenses because it has a built in motor for the lenses, so it can use AF lenses and not only AF-S as the D3200 or the D5100, that only matters if you have old lenses, because today most of the lenses are made with AF-S when your starting from scratch.

1. in my opinion, right now, the D3200 is a better camera with great low light sensor results - check out these low light samples :
Nikon D3200 Hands-on Preview: Digital Photography Review

If you want to buy now, the 650D didn't come out yet (t4i), so its up to you if you want to wait for it and see...probably will come out mid summer.

2. Both brands compete with each other so there is no 'better one' for the future. with both you have many options.

3. Well that all depends if your father has a Nikon lens collection that you can use...then its worth getting the D7000, if not, as a first DSLR i would go with a D3200 with better glass then the normal kit lens (not that there is something seriously wrong with the kit lens), invest maybe in some primes for your natural light photography.

in a case which your father doesn't have lenses that you can use, and if you can wait, and if your hooked on Canon, i would suggest to wait for the T4i and not to get the T3i now...its almost 2 generations old.

 

[thisisbleep]

Thanks for the quick reply.

To answer your question, the Nikon camera and lenses are not my dad's, occasionally he brings them home from work but that is very rare, so I cannot borrow them. Aside from that, I am from the UK, but moved to Hong Kong for work. Cameras are noticeably cheaper here, when compared to UK prices.

 

[StandingBear1983]

In that case do you want to wait or to buy now? - if you wait until mid summer, Canon will release probably the T4i, and Nikon has now the D3200 but also will release probably the new higher models in 3 months or so.

Another option is to get the Nikon D3100\Canon T2i\T3i now if you find it dirt cheap in hong kong, buy good glass (kit lens + 1 or 2 primes Canon\Nikon, no off-brand lenses) and in a year or so get the D400, or the Canon equivalent best crop sensor DSLR (not saying that the D3100\T2i\T3i won't meet your needs, there VERY capable DSLR's), which will come out most probably at the same time to compete each other, by then you'll get more knowledgeable of what exactly you want and need for what you shoot. - don't be surprised if your satisfied already with what you got .

to decide which body's feel better in your hand, try and hold the low end crop sensors AND the high end from both brands to judge which is better for you, because you can't really judge a whole brand of cameras for there lowest smallest DSLR plastic feel and all, just for a hint for future investment.

 

[Austin Greene]

You've got plenty of good advice already going for you here. All I can say is that I have been extremely happy with the 650D. It has the same sensor as the higher end Canon 7D, so the images are simply beautiful. It also felt less like a toy and more like an actual DSLR than the 3200 or 5100 when I went to check them all out.

Toga

 

[StandingBear1983]

togalive - there is no 650D, the newest "rebel" is the T3i (600D). - I don't know about toyish, at least the D5100 is not very toyish from my experiance, allthough i didn't play with the 600d yet. - also something to consider, OP said that he loves natural light photography, the sony sensor within both of the D5100 and the D3200 are proven to be better in ISO performance then the T3i, the T3i might be better in video, and that's also arguable, once the D5100 came with a Mic in and 1080P 30fps with a swirly screen as well.

http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Nikon_D5100/noise_JPEG.shtml

http://snapsort.com/compare/Canon-600d-vs-Nikon-D5100

 

[zcar21]

you said "in the future I see myself owning a 7d" I recommend you get it from the beginning you'll be much happier. About the lenses I recommend just the kit lens. Once you know how to take good picture with it you can choose exactly want lens to get. My first dslr was a canon xt, although a good camera it would have been better to get a 20d from the beginning, the price wasn't a big difference by the time I bought it. I say skip the entry level camera (get the 60d or 7d), and get one lens.

 

[thisisbleep]

Thank you all of the information and help.

@zcar21:
I am moving apartment soon, so I do not have the funds. In 2 years time I should be earning more and be more settled, so I am looking for something to get started with and learn basic photography before moving onto the more advanced camera later.


For now I have decided to wait for the Canon 650D and will compare it to the Nikon D5200, hopefully their release is at a similar time to make it easier, otherwise I will get whichever one comes out first. I have decided to get the base model because of the weight, ultimately I will want a spare body later and a light weight one will be much more preferred. What I save on this first camera will be spent further down the line, so I am not too worried about spending slightly less now.

 

[PhotoUker]

I would strongly advice you to wait until Canon 650D release and check if the rumors are true. If all of them are right: improved sensor, touchscreen, WiFi, auto focus in video mode - don't even think but order one for yourself. It's going to be a hit among film beginners!
Cheers!

 

[lonewolfsx]

A few points:

The Nikon 18-135mm is not a current lens, and has been replaced by the 18-105mm VR. Personally if you are going to buy a telephoto lens like the 70-300 anyway, why buy a standard zoom that goes all the way up to 135? I'd instead look at the 16-85mm for Nikon or 15-85mm for Canon, both are superb performers, offer stabilization and ultrasonic autofocus, and either lens will outperform the 18-105/18-135 lenses you listed (though I think they may be more expensive).
I can personally recommend the Canon 15-85mm, I've used one for almost two years now, though I'm now selling it as I've acquired a 24-70mm f/2.8 and am going FF (nikon though..). If I could afford to go FF and keep it, I would.

Secondly, I agree with whoever above said that if you intend to go with a 7D/D300s type camera, why not go for it now? Back in the day, I went for the 400D (Xti) as opposed to the 40D, and kick myself for not just going with the 40D, which I would have liked a lot more (especially since I ended up shooting a lot of sports.. at crappy 3fps and limited to 1600 ISO..). And that was even back before the cameras were so separated, nowadays the extra cash from say, the Nikon 5100 to the 7000 is such a huge jump in features (AF, framerate, body controls, in-body focus motor, etc. etc.).

Careful though, if you're not under a ton of time pressure, a D300 replacement has been rumored for a long time, as well as recent rumors of a 7D Mk2. Even if the new 7D isn't anything spectacular, it'll still drive the prices down on the regular 7D (though I'd expect the new 7D Mk2 to have that 61-pt AF system which is pretty fantastic).

oh and one more thought, Good plan on getting the 50mm f/1.8 to go along with your kit, but also consider choosing something like the Tamron 28-75mm f/2.8, or Tamron/Sigma 17-50mm f/2.8 lenses instead of your 18-135 type lenses. The constant f/2.8 is super useful and those lenses are highly regarded performance wise and retain value well, although if you choose the 28-75mm you may need a wide angle lens as 28mm is not very wide on a crop body.

 

[nmoody]

I love my D3100 and the D3200 has some nice upgrades over it.

AF FX 50mm f/1.8D

This lens will not autofocus on the D3200 because it doesn't have a build in focus motor. The lens you want is the 50mm 1.8G because the motor is built into the lens. Make sure the lens you get are AF-S if you want them to autofocus.

 

[EDL]

Funny you mention the 650D....I caught wind of that and started reading forums on it. Apparently there have been a lot of "expect it to be released some time in the next couple weeks" for almost a year now....and even "reviews" of the camera even though none exist yet...and it still isn't here. I would not be making any bets on it's release (of course, now that I say that, it'll come out exactly 2 days after I purchase a T3i).

My choices are very limited from the budget perspective. It's either get an entry-level camera now or wait another 7-8 months or longer to get something better...and someone could argue I should wait to do that and also save more to get better glass right off the bat.

I'm choosing the entry-level now because even that camera will be far more capable than I am. There is always opportunity down the road to get a new body. I'd rather be shooting now and learning than waiting to spend even more $$$ and still not know what I'm doing. As I've learned, the real investment is in the glass. The bodies are, for lack of a better term, somewhat disposable in that sense.

As for Nikon or Canon, I've vacillated on that too and ultimately decided on the Canon. The clincher for me is the ability to use Nikon lenses on the Canon body. The distance from the sensor to the lens mount is longer on Nikon, so adapters work on the Canon to mount the lens and make up for the distance (this means the Nikon lenses on the Canon will focus properly, and to infinity). That doesn't mean the AF will work, but it just means there are that many more lenses available, especially on the used market. While not true in all cases, that means to me more choices of good glass for cheaper prices (and lenses with manual control of the aperture, which isn't true for Canon lenses). Very handy for reversed lens macro work, etc. I understand that it might be possible to mount Canon or other brand lenses not intended for Nikon on the Nikon and be usable, but you will lose infinity focus due to the focal plane distance).

I had seriously considered the D3200 because of it's 24.2MP sensor. While that does not translate into better pictures, it does provide crop ability which is useful in macro (which is my primary interest). However, the 18MP of the Canon will still provide more crop wiggle room over the 12 or 15 MP Nikons.

The second thing that is swaying me to Canon (since macro is my gig) is the lovely MP-E65 lens. It only works on a Canon body. No, I won't be buying it any time soon, but I am going Canon so that I can at some point.

I have absolutely no interest in video capabilities, so any increases that the 650D has there matters none to me. A touchscreen sounds cool, but meh, not a deal breaker for me. Supposedly the T4i will retain the 18MP sensor, so no gain there either. The Digic 5 processing might provide better performance, but how much? I don't know and not sure I want to wait to find out.

I've never spent any time shooting with the Canon or a Nikon, so honestly, button and control layout aren't a big priority for me. It may end up being an issue, but I doubt it'll ever weigh in enough to over ride having the ability to use the MP-E65 lens or so many different lenses with an adapter. Like anything with buttons and dials, I'll get used to it over time.

I have handled a T3i and a D5100 and the Canon does feel better in my hand (I have big hands) and the Canon is slightly larger in the right dimensions for me. The difference however is very minor. The addition of a battery grip would make that difference nil.

So, that's the things I've learned and the considerations I've made for my purchase. The T3i it will be, and probably by next week (unless the illusive T4i should happen to show up by then).

 

[thisisbleep]

Funny you mention the 650D....I caught wind of that and started reading forums on it. Apparently there have been a lot of "expect it to be released some time in the next couple weeks" for almost a year now....and even "reviews" of the camera even though none exist yet...and it still isn't here. I would not be making any bets on it's release (of course, now that I say that, it'll come out exactly 2 days after I purchase a T3i).

The latest rumour is that it will be announced on Friday (8th of June).



In the last month, since posting the original message, I have been looking into photography in general and have done a lot more research.

Currently I am leaning towards getting the updated Nikon D5100 or D7000, with the 16-85mm lens (rumours that the lens will be updated soon), but the new mirrorless cameras are also tempting. Depending upon what happens with the rumoured entry level full-frame D600, I might also go for this if the price is only slightly higher than the updated D7000 (12,000 vs 15,000 HKD for example).

For now I am saving my money and waiting, I know that people advise buying the camera and using it instead of waiting for the rumours to be proven/disproven, but I will be moving apartment soon and should keep the money available in case I need it. Plus I work 5 or 6 day weeks and am limited to when I can use it, before and after work during the week it is dark or getting dark, which leaves me some Saturdays and every Sunday to practise with daylight, not ideal but that is the situation I find myself in.


- Nikon D7100
- AF-S DX NIKKOR 16-85mm f/3.5-5.6G ED VR II
- 35mm or 50mm 1.8 (I will decide based on taking photos with the 16-85 at those lengths)
- AF-S FX 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6G VR IF ED

The 16-85mm and 70-300mm have the same sized filter, which is convenient, and if I get the D600 there are rumours of a cheaper FX lens being released, which does not have a fixed f-stop, which I would get instead of the 16-85mm, either way I would buy the D600 with the FX kit lens (most likely both lenses are the same thing).