Canon 90D Released!

[ac12]

Thanks for that Ron. Why would the 1Dx be preferred for wildlife?

12 fps will help you capture peak action, the AF is so much better and the thing is built like a tank.

Thanks for that Ron. Why would the 1Dx be preferred for wildlife?

even better AF geared towards sports, more FPS, bigger buffer, phenomenal low light performance. Fantasic camera but smaller images and an APS-H sensor. My Dad uses a 1DX so I'm reasonably familiar with it.

The 1Dx is a full frame camera not a crop. The crop is the 1D mk IV but it only has 10 fps (this is what I shoot)

High frame rate is a double-edged sword.

It can be too much of a good thing.
At 12 fps, be prepared to edit through a LOT of pics.
On Tues, I shot a high school tennis match at 18 fps, and ended up with about 3,600 frames
After HOURS of culling, I am down to 1,100 frames. But that is still a LONG way above my goal of 200 frames.

I have to rethink how I shoot at high frame rates.
My Nikon D7200 shoots at 6 fps, so the 18 fps of the Olympus, at 3x faster, was a kick in the pants.
I had to slow it down to 9 fps yesterday when I shot water polo.

Give me a 5D IV, 1D mk IV, 1Dx or 1Dx II and I'll shoot about the same number of images at a football game. (Been there and done that). The use of the fps is about how much time there is BETWEEN images.

Example: Use all the above camera's mentioned and take a 3 shot burst (or even 5 shot burst).

The time between images of the 5 fps vs the 12 fps is much longer and it requires more timing and "luck" to get the peak action. STOP: Can it be done? Yes absolutely because we have/had photogs doing it with 3 fps and less.

But there is a big difference.

And old habits die hard.
With the Nikon, I still find myself timing the shot and firing off SINGLE shots.

But after the tennis match, at 18 fps, I think timing and my finger has met it's match.
But even at 18 fps, that racket moves a lot in that 1/18 of a second.
I plan to go to a faster frame rate when I shoot the 1st and 2nd singles on Thur. Then back down to 18 for the other players.

 

[ronlane]

@ac12, I still shoot 1 frame at times as well. I do it more in baseball and softball trying to time the bat on the ball. Not sure why I do it that way, probably because of the old slow frame rates that I first shot with.

At 10 fps now, I don't have to as much but I will say after shooting with the 1dx and at 12 fps, I could get use to that VERY quickly.

 

[Derrel]

In another thread today we have a fellow who claims to shoot 10 to 30 frame bursts at 10 frames per second, as he has been instructed to do by Tony Northrup and some other web guy named Steve something. I tried to tell him that he would be better off working on his timing rather than firing off his normal 10 to 30 frames, and hoping to get a good shot of a machine gunned burst. He says that he typically discards 90% of his shots.

Most of my sports work was done with the Nikon d2x which Fires at only 5 frames per second or at 8.2 frames per second in itd 2.0 X high speed crop mode. I typically shot single frames and after about six months had a very high success rate. The d2x had perhaps the shortest latency time of any camera around when it was new back in 2005. The shutter delay time was also state-of-the-art. The big problem with a reflex camera is that even though we met press the shutter oh, the mirror must be swung up before the shutter can begin its travel. In the film days most shutters on reflex cameras took around 1 30th of a second,whilr Rangefinder cameras like the Leica were extremely rapid at around 1 250th of a second.

In baseball and softball I do not think there is any way to get good ball on bat shots except by firing single shots at the correct time. 10 frames per second means that each picture is one tenth of a second away from the previous, when I expect that the baseball leaving the bat 100 miles per hour gives you a window of around 100 milliseconds at most.

 

[ac12]

@Derrel
I recall having that exact experience shooting tennis.
I got my best hit rates, shooting timed single frames, rather than a burst at 6 fps.
Even when I am shooting the other sports, I will often shoot single frames.

But for my students, who lack the experience, I tell them to shoot at max fps, and hope for the best. And shoot a LOT, to make up for the difference. IOW, the brute force, "spray and pray," approach.
None of my students has the patience to learn to shoot with timing.
With digital, it is MUCH easier to learn timing, since you get immediate feedback, and can adjust your timing on the spot. With film, we had to wait till we processed the film, to see if we got the shot. This was a minimum of several hours, but more like a day or two, between the shoot and looking at the negative.

Since two years ago, none of my students have shot more than the minimum they had to, to do their yearbook page. And they wonder why they can't get good shoots. sigh Though I do grant that some of them have a LOT more homework than I did in high school.

Teaching high school kids to shoot is MUCH harder than I thought it would be.

 

[Derrel]

One of the best things about shooting digitally is that you can see where your current shutter release timing and anticipation leads to. Fire off a photo, and then look at the display and see whether you are in front of or behind the action. Ball on bat, pole vault, high jumping and a whole host of other types of sports shots depend upon the very Peak of action being captured within a very very small slice of time. You have to anticipate with a slow camera, but with a really fast-release camera it is fairly easy to get the shot you want. One thing that you will find in highly technical reviews is the shutter lag time. On a really fast camera this is usually around 80 milliseconds.

 

[ac12]

One of the best things about shooting digitally is that you can see where your current shutter release timing and anticipation leads to. Fire off a photo, and then look at the display and see whether you are in front of or behind the action. Ball on bat, pole vault, high jumping and a whole host of other types of sports shots depend upon the very Peak of action being captured within a very very small slice of time. You have to anticipate with a slow camera, but with a really fast-release camera it is fairly easy to get the shot you want. One thing that you will find in highly technical reviews is the shutter lag time. On a really fast camera this is usually around 80 milliseconds.

On some (high end) Olympus cameras, they have a feature called "Pro Capture." Pretty neat stuff.
If you hold down the shutter half way, it will shoot and store in buffer the last X seconds of images.
So you can actually capture images BEFORE you trip the shutter. This also helps to counter the EVF lag, where the EVF display is a fraction behind real time.
I have mine set up to capture 1-second of images before I trip the shutter.
BUT, Pro Capture only works when you can setup for the shot. It does nothing for a fast grab shot.

 

[Derrel]

How well does it work for let's say tennis? I would imagine that it's not that useful, if it works the way I am thinking it works

 

[ac12]

How well does it work for let's say tennis? I would imagine that it's not that useful, if it works the way I am thinking it works

Prediction is the key.

Actually it would work for tennis. But only for the shots that I can setup, or plan for; like the serve, a singles return, or the back player in doubles. Then I have time to put the AF point on the player and half press.
It does not work when I cannot figure out which player in doubles will get the ball, or if the front player gets the ball. If the front player gets the ball, I barely have time to do a grab shot. I cannot read a tennis game fast enough, to predict a shot to the front player.

Volleyball is where many/most of my shots are grab/quick shift from one player to another and shoot, it won't work at all for those grab shots. I'm getting better at reading the plays, but still a LOT of grab shots. Like on a spike, the setter will send the ball up, but I don't know which forward (left or right) will get the ball, until the ball is coming down towards that forward. So that usually ends up as a grab shot.
Similarly a fast pass in basketball would be a grab shot, where I shift and shoot.

I am still learning to use it.

So bottom line, is Pro Capture will not work for grab shots, where I quickly move the camera to a subject and immediately shoot.
The camera needs to be on the subject for a second or so, at half press, before you trip the shutter.

So like any tool, it has a place where it works and where it does not work.

Having said all that, Pro Capture is simply a type of timed shooting.
Instead of you shooting before you think the action will happen, the camera does.
The only real difference are:
- The buffers rolls, so you can hold the shutter at half press, and only the last X seconds will be stored.
- If you release the shutter, you flush the buffer. So you don't keep anything if you don't shoot.
But shooting digital is essentially free, so shooting the extra shots really does not cost anything.

 

[daveo228i]

A perfect example of ‘ planned obsolescence’. All the manufacturers have to do is create more megapixels, voila, the newest must have. Film will beat out pixels any day. I am sure that Canon is already working on the Canon 10xx.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Dacaur]

Uhhhh, yea, that's, litteraly, exactly how it works with technology stuff, mfg makes a product, releases it, then starts working on the next, better, product, but it's not called planned obsolescence, it's called progress.
The alternative is we are all still using pinhole cameras....