CIPA: Less than 7 million cameras have shipped from Jan-Oct 202

[cgw]

Why

They are.

35mm Cameras | B&H Photo Video

Leicas were always expensive. When a K1000 sells for $5K, then talk to me.

The least expensive film SLR is nearly $2K.

The least expensive SLR on that list was 2K. I don't know how you are determining the entire film camera market price from one list of four Leicas and one Nikon SLR at B&H.

Do you know of a less expensive new 35MM film SLR?

After all, B&H is a pretty small time camera store.

Who is talking about only new cameras? The demand for film decreased when digital became popular, fewer and fewer cameras were made, and the ones that are still being produced are being offered at similar prices as they were before. The used market, however, is quite robust and prices are cheap, even considering the recent uptick in film sales and interest in film cameras, which did drive the price up a bit. And so there are still a lot of affordable options for people who want to shoot film.

Let's say that the same thing happens to digital and eventually, just a few kinds of digital cameras being produced. Why assume (not you - the OP) that the only possible outcome is that prices will "skyrocket" so high that no one can afford them anymore? No more services, no more repair options, companies going bankrupt left and right?

No one is denying that sales have declined. The disagreement is with the conclusion that this spells disaster for the digital camera market.

You were talking about new film cameras.

The point you were disputing is that lower production numbers didn’t increase prices. Obviously it does, lower demand results in lower production over time. Lower production results in higher per unit production costs ... and eventually niche status and high retail price. What’s the production rate and pricing for horse drawn carriages?

The low price of used film cameras verifies this point as it is a mirror image of the problem. Millions of film SLR were available in the used market, and buyers are few and far between.

Where have you been for the last 15+ years? Remember when and why Kodak went broke? Enough shadow boxing already.

 

[LWW]

Enjoy your falling skies.

Don't get angry at me for presenting facts that do not interest you or are disagreeable.

The drop of sales I am pointing to will impact the sale price of cameras as we can see now in the present and most likely the future too.

As volume reduces the per unit sale price of cameras will only go up.

• 2005 5D intro price was $3,299.
• 2008 5D Mark II intro price was $2,699.
• 2012 5D Mark III intro price was $3,499.
• 2016 5D Mark IV intro price was $3,499.
• 2020 R5 intro price was $3,899.

Many here will balk at paying 2-3x what we're paying today in bodies, lenses and accessories.

I would not be surprised if the R5 Mark II will cost nearly $5,000 by year 2024 or later.

When cameras shipped settles at 5 million units per year I would not be surprised that it will be the case.

And film's as significant as LPs and range finder cameras. Appealing to the outliers of outliers.

1 film camera for every 10,000 smartphone shipped?

I'm glad I moved to digital in 1996 and never looked back ever since.

You are right, and I should have listened.

Some folks prefer to cross the street with blinders on and then wonder how they got hit by the bus.

Perhaps the last chance for the DSLR/SLR/MILC industry is offshoring everything to dirt cheap labor factories and hope that reducing costs can keep the Titanic from sinking.

Just as film decimated tintypes, 35MM decimated larger format cameras, digital decimated 35MM the march will continue

Whether any of us like it or not.

 

[LWW]

Why

Leicas were always expensive. When a K1000 sells for $5K, then talk to me.

The least expensive film SLR is nearly $2K.

The least expensive SLR on that list was 2K. I don't know how you are determining the entire film camera market price from one list of four Leicas and one Nikon SLR at B&H.

Do you know of a less expensive new 35MM film SLR?

After all, B&H is a pretty small time camera store.

Who is talking about only new cameras? The demand for film decreased when digital became popular, fewer and fewer cameras were made, and the ones that are still being produced are being offered at similar prices as they were before. The used market, however, is quite robust and prices are cheap, even considering the recent uptick in film sales and interest in film cameras, which did drive the price up a bit. And so there are still a lot of affordable options for people who want to shoot film.

Let's say that the same thing happens to digital and eventually, just a few kinds of digital cameras being produced. Why assume (not you - the OP) that the only possible outcome is that prices will "skyrocket" so high that no one can afford them anymore? No more services, no more repair options, companies going bankrupt left and right?

No one is denying that sales have declined. The disagreement is with the conclusion that this spells disaster for the digital camera market.

You were talking about new film cameras.

The point you were disputing is that lower production numbers didn’t increase prices. Obviously it does, lower demand results in lower production over time. Lower production results in higher per unit production costs ... and eventually niche status and high retail price. What’s the production rate and pricing for horse drawn carriages?

The low price of used film cameras verifies this point as it is a mirror image of the problem. Millions of film SLR were available in the used market, and buyers are few and far between.

Where have you been for the last 15+ years? Remember when and why Kodak went broke? Enough shadow boxing already.

Living in reality.

 

[cgw]

Time to call Orkin for some troll spray.