Client's Photo Usage?

[DGMPhotography]

I posted this in another thread, but it was a side topic so I didn't want it to get lost in all the rubble - anyway, here are my questions:

So in your opinion, when someone pays you to do a photo shoot, say $250 for portrait session, is that payment only for your time and non-commercial/non-retail usage? Would using the photos in ads or posts on social media be considered commercial?

And what about printing? Do your customers have the rights to print the photos if it's for non-commercial/non-retail use? Like, a framed picture in the hall. If so, how do you justify selling prints if they can print it themselves?

And what about altering the image, or online usage? You give them the non-watermarked photos, correct? What if the client posts a photo with an Instagram filter on it? Or do you allow your clients to only use watermarked/non-edited images?

And then you charge extra (license) the photo(s) if it is for commercial or retail usage, correct?

Would you do an exclusive license for these things (like, only the client will be able to use the photos at this time), or non exclusive? I'm guessing it varies between clients.

I know I've got a lot of questions, but I would much appreciate you taking the time to answer them!

 

[tirediron]

When they pay me for a portrait session, it's for what is spelled out in the agreement. For family sessions, it's for my time only, product is extra, business portraits/headshots include two digital files without printing rights. Commercial usage is never included (except for business portraits) unless it is agreed to and specified separately.

 

[Designer]

..how do you justify selling prints if they can print it themselves?

They can't print from a file they don't have. Don't give away your electronic files.

 

[KmH]

. . . how do you justify selling prints if they can print it themselves?

SALESMANSHIP.

Images destined for electronic display require different editing than images for print.
If you prepare your images for print they will lack full quality when displayed online/electronically.
If you prepare your images for online/electronic display they will lack their full quality when printed.
The Digital Print: Preparing Images in Lightroom and Photoshop for Printing

Why leave the reproduction quality of your work up to someone that has little if any expertise?
Just because someone can drive a street car around town doesn't mean they can successfully drive a race car.

Then there are the boatload of technical issues relative to having a print made.
Color space, file type, print type - chromogenic (paper brand & metallic, matte, B&W, lustre, or semi-gloss) basic inkjet (4 ink colors), HQ inkjet (Gicleé - up to 14 ink colors) paper types (and paper tooth) canvas, metal, acrylic, and more.

 

[tirediron]

... how do you justify selling prints if they can print it themselves?

It starts by not even mentioning digital files (except for business clients who only want files for on-line use), and is followed by pricing. Family clients who ask about digital files are told that they can buy them, and the prices are.... (Starting at $65). For those that insist, the best tool I have in my arsenal is a folder it has four copies of the same print. The first is from my lab, followed by one from Wal-mart, one from Costco, and two other similar local "labs". That usually takes care of it.

 

[table1349]

..how do you justify selling prints if they can print it themselves?

They can't print from a file they don't have. Don't give away your electronic files.

Designer, the sad part is you had to put it in writing.

 

[DGMPhotography]

Any chance someone could answer all my questions? I'm getting bits and pieces here.

And honestly, the idea of not sharing digital jpegs seems kinda crazy to me. Most of the people I work with expect it. It's like the default.

 

[KmH]

Which is why it is so tough today to make money doing retail photography.
Digital images are a commodity, like a bushel of corn, and no longer the luxury product they used to be.

Few of today's retail photographers have salesmanship skills because they rely on putting images online rather than doing in-person proofing.
It's tough to generate a sufficient average sale amount to keep a retail photography business going without a range of print products to sell.

The notion that you can start a going retail photography business with a minimal capital investment is a canard.

The notion that you don't have to sell prints and other products to generate a living income is also revealed as a canard if you do the basic math on the type of revenue and number of shoots a retail photography business has to produce month in and month out to survive.

The bottom line is you need an average sale between $500 and $1000 to make a living income after business expenses.

 

[table1349]

Any chance someone could answer all my questions? I'm getting bits and pieces here.

And honestly, the idea of not sharing digital jpegs seems kinda crazy to me. Most of the people I work with expect it. It's like the default.

I will answer a future question of yours, that being, "What happened to the photography business? Where did it go?"

A look in the mirror will give you your answer.

It seems kind of crazy to me that giving away 1/2 to 2/3rds of a business model would make you a successful photographer. Most people expect it because you let it happen, just as today's generations don't take time off from their jobs. Now employers have come to expect it. They still give the vacation knowing you won't take it. They look good but loose nothing.

Sadly this seems to be the fate of photography these days.

You cease to be a photographer and become a button pusher when you give away the digital files. Your vision, your style are rendered meaningless when others complete your job their way.

 

[ClickAddict]

Any chance someone could answer all my questions? I'm getting bits and pieces here.

And honestly, the idea of not sharing digital jpegs seems kinda crazy to me. Most of the people I work with expect it. It's like the default.

Sure. The answer to all you questions is.. "it depends what's written in your contract". What's in my contract may be different than what's in Gryphonslair99 and tirediron most likely has a different one as well. We all most likely have a variety of contracts (or slightly different versions) to accommodate different client requests/needs. It's like asking fellow restaurateurs what's on their menu. It will all be different. There are some photographers who only sell digital files, some who never do, some who do but a at a steep price... How many photos do we offer... how long are our sessions...You need to find what works for you.

 

[Designer]

Any chance someone could answer all my questions? I'm getting bits and pieces here.

News flash! Not everyone knows everything about everything.

My response above (post #3) took care of two of your questions. If you can't glean the appropriate answers from multiple posts, then hire somebody to sit down and write up an anthology of posts on here. Then you can read the one-page report all at once.

Meanwhile, I will take your criticism to heart: Whenever a multi-question post appears, I will make sure I can answer every part before I embarrass myself and frustrate the OP with only a partial answer. Thank you.

 

[astroNikon]

I don't do much Retail Photography but I do know this ...
you MAKE your money in doing Face-To-Face review and sale of Prints, etc.

If you give away JPEGs expect those jpegs to be everywhere, with every imaginable instagram filter added to it and not necessarily from the customer you sold them to. There's no way you can police that unless you simple don't make those JPEGs available. Even then people will take a snapshot with their iPhone or scan it.

It all comes down to marketing your skills and services and differentiating yourself from the services of the low-ball crowd.

 

[pixmedic]

here we go again....

look. heres the deal.
this is not 1954. people do not view their photos the same way that they did 30-40 years ago.
most people want to be able to share their photos. its not even about making their own prints...maybe a few will, but the majority of clients under retirement age are not
looking for prints just to hang on a wall or on a nightstand. they want to post to their social media pages, share on Instagram, email to friends and family....
whatever money you lose not selling only prints will be quickly eclipsed by the volume of consumers that have little to no desire for physical prints, and no amount of salesmanship is going
to convince them otherwise. the short of it is...if your clients want digital copies, sell it to them.
we charged a flat rate for the session, package deals starting at 5 photos, then a la carte prices on extra photos.

what we charged for portraits was what we wanted to get for our shooting and processing time. prints became extra.
when we were able to sell prints, it was gravy. when we couldn't, we were already paid what we wanted to get just from the portrait session itself.
our print release allowed clients to print their own photos for personal and non-commercial use. I don't remember the exact wording. the file was on the same CD the finished JPG files were so whoever was doing the printing could see it. we encouraged clients to order prints off our web page which was set up to print from bayphoto.

our contract stated that clients were not allowed to alter our photos in any way. (unless they purchased copyrights from us)
but in all reality...we didn't scour the interwebs to check all our clients FB and Instagram pages to make sure they didn't filter up one of our pics.
i suppose if we HAD run across one we might have had to consider our options, but for the most part, I don't think we would have really cared all that much.
do you plan to keep track of every client's social media pages? sounds too tedious for me.

commercial usage would have been way more money, but we never did any commercial work so I couldn't really elaborate much there.

 

[tirediron]

here we go again....

look. heres the deal.
this is not 1954. people do not view their photos the same way that they did 30-40 years ago.

True... but... one of the problems with today's methodology is that everyone (myself included) has probably tens of thousands of digital files stored electronically that they never look at. Providing prints forces people to actually look at them. What I do, when requested (and it doesn't come up a lot because the majority of my client base is 60+ and they LIKE prints) is to provide complimentary social media files. These are 800pix/72ppi files. BUT... they only get these for the images that they purchase as prints.

 

[pixmedic]

here we go again....

look. heres the deal.
this is not 1954. people do not view their photos the same way that they did 30-40 years ago.

True... but... one of the problems with today's methodology is that everyone (myself included) has probably tens of thousands of digital files stored electronically that they never look at. Providing prints forces people to actually look at them. What I do, when requested (and it doesn't come up a lot because the majority of my client base is 60+ and they LIKE prints) is to provide complimentary social media files. These are 800pix/72ppi files. BUT... they only get these for the images that they purchase as prints.

the answer lies somewhere in between i think.
as much as someone would be throwing money away by not selling prints, the same is true about neglecting the digital side.
are you willing to turn down clients that only want digital files? if you had clients that only wanted pictures for social media usage, would you refer them to another photographer?
I wouldnt. and didnt. seemed silly to me.
those that get completely stuck on antiquated methods and can not adapt to new ways products are consumed are no less doomed to failure than those that refuse to consider the old tried and true methods.

in short, there is no "single solution" to photography sales.
we all just have to figure out what works for ourselves, our area, and our clientele.