Completely lost

Discussion in 'Mirrorless Cameras' started by soufiej, Jan 9, 2015.

  1. Trever1t

    Trever1t Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    Do you have 2 user names here?????


     
  2. Light Guru

    Light Guru Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    I didn't say to stop thinking period. I said to stop thinking so much about the gear. And then I said START thinking more about the photo.
     
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  3. pgriz

    pgriz Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    People go through phases as they learn about a new field or hobby. At first it seems it's about the gear, then technique, then (in the case of photography) post-processing. At some point, there's increased awareness of light, which sets off its own round (gear, technique, application). Consideration of composition, purpose, meaning and emotion develop over time as the tools get mastered, knowledge is acquired, and the realization of how much one doesn't know starts to sink in. Having the horizons expanded is a good thing. One discovers that there are many interconnected paths one can follow. And each path has its own challenges. So depending on the path taken, the walking aids which are appropriate change. On some paths, mirror-less cameras make the most sense. On others, it may be P&S, and for others it may be DSLR's. Film is less of a path, and more of a whole different region.

    I've been doing photography for more than 45 years. And almost every day I pick up the camera, or I look at an image, I find something new to learn.

    As for gear obsession, it's kinda natural. The rock climbers obsess about their ropes and carabiners. The kayakers obsess about their boats, paddles and anciliarry equipment. The bikers obsess about their gears and handle bars and seat stems. Wood workers obsess about their tools and glues and varnishes. But at some point, the gear and technique need to recede into the background and the reasons for doing something should come to the fore.

    Welcome to the journey. It's a fascinating ride.
     
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  4. soufiej

    soufiej No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    See?! This is what I didn't want to get into. Now you're all offended that I responded in a way you see as inappropriate. Believe me, I didn't need your explanation of what you posted. I can read and I do comprehend a few things some others on this forum seem not to grasp.

    Let's go through a few facts, OK? Ya'with me?

    First and foremost, you are posting "STOP thinking so much about gear" in a section of the forum specifically about the gear. I have to ask, if you're not here to assist in a discussion of the gear, just why are you hanging out in this section of the forum? Why do you think this section on gear was added to the forum if not for people to discuss gear? Really?! there are sections of the overall forum where you can stay away from discussing gear. THIS is not one of them.

    Understand?

    Second, you don't have a clue. Not only does this "stop thinking about gear" response seem to be a way for people to, what? up their post count? without really answering a question, it's shorthand for "I don't care what you want to know, it's not important to me." Fine, if it's not important to you, don't bother to respond. Get your post count up somewhere else. You may have been capable enough to provide an opinion on my question but your preference is not to. I don't know you and you don't know me so I can't say. And neither can you. Isn't that obvious?

    You don't know enough about me to give me advice about how I think. I happen to be considering a new camera purchase. So, is your advice still that I "STOP thinking so much about gear"? If so, that would be very, very dumb advice IMO. But you still saw fit to give the advice that would, in most people's mind, be the most inappropriate thing to be thinking about at this point. Yes, thinking about how I'm going to use the camera must enter into the discussion. But at this point, understanding the gear is the most important thing I need if I am to decide whether the gear is for me or not. I just don't get it. Might I suggest, YOU THINK about who you are talking to and why they might be asking a question BEFORE YOU simply post "STOP thinking so much about gear"?

    Finally, you also don't know me well enough to know how or how much I think about a shot. You couldn't, I've only been on this forum for a week. No one on this forum knows me. No one on this forum, other than those folks who have contributed to my thread about why I want a new camera, could possibly have any idea how I think about what I'm going to do with a new camera. Therefore, I THINK you are completely off base and you really should just stop now. In one week on this forum I've already been through this "stop thinking" BS several times and I've been run over by the one poster. I've seen this advice used as shorthand for "you're not important to me". And it seems to be so easy to post into any thread that, if that's really what you think, why not find a forum where only thinking about the image is the singular topic of discussion? You and those others who post the stop thinking BS are really wasting everyone's time IMO. Unless, that is, you are saying such on a section of the forum which is all about thinking about the shot. This is not one of those sections.
     
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  5. photoguy99

    photoguy99 No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    Soufiej this is the second time I've seen you get lengthily obnoxious in the face of good advice.

    The reason you need to think about the images and not the gear is the the images you want will determine the gear. You have the cart before the horse.

    There is no universal camera which will do everything you can imagine, which you will be able to discover if you just think hard enough.
     
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  6. snowbear

    snowbear Oh, hai. I iz bear. Supporting Member

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    You post to a public area, asking for opinions. Then you get upset when someone posts their opinion.
    :rolleyes:

    I think you think too much.
     
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  7. soufiej

    soufiej No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    Yes, you're the member who ran me over the first time. Please, read what I just posted above.

    And, to repeat, I posted a question in a section of a public forum about the gear. Geez!



    Tell you all what, I think I have the answer I need here. Let's call this quits.


    Thanks to everyone who actually contributed a useful response.
     
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  8. DaveEP

    DaveEP TPF Noob!

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    Yes, it's really really simple.

    Smaller P&S cameras are too small, often have so much stuff buried in menus and frankly the images they produce are snap shot at best (most of the time). You can't change lenses either, so you're stuck with what you got.

    DSLRs are big and heavy and the lenses are too big to carry around casually. I've carried two large pro bodies + lenses around my neck for too long and my back and shoulders hated me for it. The quality of shots is (or can be) good/great, depending on who's doing the shooting. It can also be pretty bad, worse in fact than a P&S if the shooter is not competent because DSLRs won't do all the consumer image massaging to make them look better, they expect you to do a lot of that in post yourself. DSLR lenses are big and bulky and weigh far too much to carry around on walkabout. That's why so many DSLR owners go looking for the perfect 'walkabout' lens (which doesn't exist) hoping that magically something like a 28-300 in a small package is going to give great quality, which it isn't.

    Mirrorless cameras come somewhere in between. The images are (or can be) significantly better that P&S cameras and can compete very well with even high end DSLRs, except in situations where really high ISO is required. The lens selection go from the absolutely tiny to the quite long focal length that is still extremely small compared to DSLRs. I can carry a bag with two bodies and 5 lenses and still be smaller and lighter than carrying a DSLR with single lens.

    I have all three of these types, P&S, Mirrorless and DSLR.

    The P&S never gets used, I should ebay it.

    The DSLR is sat on the shelf because it's too big and bulky to take everywhere.

    The mirrorless camera is my go-to camera because it (and the lenses that go with it) is easy and light to carry around. The lenses can be used wide open and still be sharp, there's very few DSLR lenses you say say that about.

    The image quality is excellent. There is this idea that unless you have 22MP-36MP you can't make great images but I'm here to say the 16MP from a mirrorless camera prints very well to 16"x20" and bigger, in fact bigger than most people ever print.

    So why does this sector exist? I hope that's now a little clearer. People have reasons to buy them, to shoot them and to make great images.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2015
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  9. soufiej

    soufiej No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    Excellent response! I thank you very much. I've always used Canon Rebels which tend to be fairly small and light while providing about as much camera as I typically need. Then I would put my money into the lenses and so forth. Certainly, the cost of a decent lens is significant and a top notch zoom for birding (I presently use a 75-300mm and a teleconverter at times) is somewhat out of my price range unless I get lucky and find one used.

    It's been eight years since I made my last purchase (a Rebel XT) and I'm in the market now. I'll look into the size and weight differentials and see what i come up with as this is meant to be a daily carry around camera. I drive a Fiat 500 so space is at a premium and there are no great locations to hide a camera bag full of equipment in the car's interior.

    My main sticking point as I've looked at the category has been the cost, which appears to be in about the same ballpark as a DSLR. Your explanation does help though. Thanks again.
     
  10. DaveEP

    DaveEP TPF Noob!

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    It's late here, I'll try post some real world comparisons for you tomorrow. You may just be pleasantly surprised.
     
  11. The_Traveler

    The_Traveler Completely Counter-dependent Supporting Member

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    There is a semi-arcane reason that is important to some people.
    Mirrorless cameras are considerable smaller and less obvious than dslrs and only sacrifice some of the potential iq.
    Thus, for a street shooter, smaller less obvious cameras/lenses are less intimidating to subjects and are faster and lighter to use. (less rotational inertia)
    Someone shooting a small mirror-less can be taken for a harmless tourist rather than a dreaded photographer.
    If you are looking for low price, mirrorless may not a good direction because low level dslrs and entry level lenses are cheaper than Mirrorless.
    My two main lenses for my Oly were both over 1k each.
     
  12. cmorinweb

    cmorinweb TPF Noob!

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    The reason is pretty clear: you get a decent sensor, in a smaller (much smaller) body, that you can carry everywhere without having to carry your backpack or that purse bag because that amazing DSLR is just too bulky.

    I got a Nikon D70S which I like, with good accessories. It's old, but it works. Now I wanted something versatile that would allow me to take pictures of my daughter everywhere, and also record 1080p videos at the same time... All this, in a "pocketable" format. Try to do that with a DSLR...

    How many times I told myself "holy shout" that would make an awesome picture, but I left that big DSLR at home mainly because of its size. Now I got my Sony a6000 (which is an awesome camera by the way) with me everywhere. I get perfect pictures for me needs, and I can leverage my photography knowledge and let my creative instinct do great things. Gadgets like WiFi, NFC and others are great additions, but the main advantages of going mirrorless is the size and convenience.

    As for anything, there will always be haters or people bashing about mirrorless, saying that it sucks and that DSLR are better blablabla. You got to try a good mirrorless camera to understand that it is a great technology.

    I was about to buy a more decent DSLR (Nikon D5200 or D7000), but a friend of mine which is a photographer told me about the mirrorless technology. I have spent few weeks reading and watching videos about that on the Internet, and was very impressed of what I was seeing. I took the leap, with absolutely no regrets.
     

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