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Only after my own analysis would I read the other comments. The more times I was in the concensus, the more confidence I had to actually type my comments for C&C. The kick in the pants was when some of those same members that I held to high regard began to comment on my comments in a positive manner, that I felt that I actually have learned a few things about photography.

So there it is. If you're intimidated to comment on a photo due to insecurity, do it anyway, but just keep it to yourself.

As far as I'm concerned, if somebody with 6784 posts on this forum or somebody "held in high regard" disagrees with a compliment I have provided, well, they're entitled to do so. But I'm not obligated to care.

This is what I meant when I said "forum dogma" earlier. Who cares if you stand out from the crowd with your opinion?

I don't know what it is about internet forums, but you see this sort of thing everywhere, no matter what the hobby is.

I think this article describes the phenomenon nicely: Groupthink - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 


Only after my own analysis would I read the other comments. The more times I was in the concensus, the more confidence I had to actually type my comments for C&C. The kick in the pants was when some of those same members that I held to high regard began to comment on my comments in a positive manner, that I felt that I actually have learned a few things about photography.

So there it is. If you're intimidated to comment on a photo due to insecurity, do it anyway, but just keep it to yourself.

As far as I'm concerned, if somebody with 6784 posts on this forum or somebody "held in high regard" disagrees with a compliment I have provided, well, they're entitled to do so. But I'm not obligated to care.

This is what I meant when I said "forum dogma" earlier. Who cares if you stand out from the crowd with your opinion?

I don't know what it is about internet forums, but you see this sort of thing everywhere, no matter what the hobby is.

I think this article describes the phenomenon nicely: Groupthink - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm guessing that is an arbitrary number (6784 posts). The persons that I "held in high regard" have nothing to do with the recent crop of candidates. Most of those people do not post anymore. So you can KMA.

No one here today is obliged to agree or care with any other member on TPF.

I could give two flying phuques what your dogma is. I didn't read any previous post of yours in this thread, and to be true, I never will.


I could give two flying phuques what information your links provide at this point.


I only gave an excersize of how to evolve oneself to be an active member wanting to give C&C when they don't believe they are credible. If you don't know who to trust about giving C&C, then that is your issue to resolve. With time, the truth rises to the surface.

Take it or leave it. It worked for me. Do you have a better solution? With some sensibility on your part, I might become interested.
 


Only after my own analysis would I read the other comments. The more times I was in the concensus, the more confidence I had to actually type my comments for C&C. The kick in the pants was when some of those same members that I held to high regard began to comment on my comments in a positive manner, that I felt that I actually have learned a few things about photography.

So there it is. If you're intimidated to comment on a photo due to insecurity, do it anyway, but just keep it to yourself.

As far as I'm concerned, if somebody with 6784 posts on this forum or somebody "held in high regard" disagrees with a compliment I have provided, well, they're entitled to do so. But I'm not obligated to care.

This is what I meant when I said "forum dogma" earlier. Who cares if you stand out from the crowd with your opinion?

I don't know what it is about internet forums, but you see this sort of thing everywhere, no matter what the hobby is.

I think this article describes the phenomenon nicely: Groupthink - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Nope... that is one thing about the forum...

Those of us who teach, are not obligated to do so!

And those who are here to learn... well, they aren't obligated to "listen" either... that is up to them.

And those that say they are here to learn, but know it all already... well, I/we am/are not obligated to teach, or care about them! They don't really want to learn.. and we do get those occasionally!
 
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I'm guessing that is an arbitrary number (6784 posts). The persons that I "held in high regard" have nothing to do with the recent crop of candidates. Most of those people do not post anymore. So you can KMA.

No one here today is obliged to agree or care with any other member on TPF.

I could give two flying phuques what your dogma is. I didn't read any previous post of yours in this thread, and to be true, I never will.


I could give two flying phuques what information your links provide at this point.


I only gave an excersize of how to evolve oneself to be an active member wanting to give C&C when they don't believe they are credible. If you don't know who to trust about giving C&C, then that is your issue to resolve. With time, the truth rises to the surface.

Take it or leave it. It worked for me. Do you have a better solution? With some sensibility on your part, I might become interested.

For crying out loud.

"I could give two flying phuques what your dogma is"... What in the world are you talking about?

dogma noun
a : something held as an established opinion; especially : a definite authoritative tenet
b : a code of such tenets <pedagogical dogma>
c : a point of view or tenet put forth as authoritative without adequate grounds

The dogma isn't mine, it's precisely what I'm saying I don't like--I thought that was pretty clear. But then again, if you're inclined to use phrases like "I could give two phuques" and "you can KMA", I guess you don't hold literacy in very high regard.

I'm not trying to argue with you--I'm simply making the suggestion that if one likes a photograph, they should just say so and not worry about what others think, and not worry about whether or not their opinion is in accord with consensus. I guess you find this stance offensive, and I can't phuquing figure out why.

Nope... that is one thing about the forum...

Those of us who teach, are not obligated to do so!

And those who are here to learn... well, they aren't obligated to "listen" either... that is up to them.

And those that say they are here to learn, but know it all already... well, I/we am/are not obligated to teach, or care about them! They don't really want to learn.. and we do get those occasionally!

Why are you twisting things around? Who ever said anything about not wanting to "listen" to the lessons that experienced photographers provide? Having somebody with experience offer a tutorial or a critique of my work is not the same thing as having that same person try to tell me all the reasons why I'm wrong/misguided/stupid/misinformed for liking a certain photograph taken by somebody else. If you can't see the distinction, I don't know what else to say.
 
I must admit I have never seen another group of people who are more interested in asserting that they don't care what others think or how others work and are willing to internet-fight about it.

Relax, people.

What most people have been saying is that giving an bare comment without telling the recipient why is like giving someone a ten dollar bill that has been torn in half. The idea is nice but much or most of the value is lost to both the giver and the recipient.

You don't have to either fight the crowd or go with it, however you choose to comment is much more valuable both to you and to the recipient if you tell them why you think that way.

Jeez, Louise - will everyone lose that macho, I'm agonna do it my way routine; it gets really old.
 
I personally do appreciate comments and criticism. I love to understand why I should have or should not have done something. C&C definitely motivates me to be better regardless if it is a troll or a legitimate statement.
 
.. C&C definitely motivates me to be better ..

Which was my point about dumping on the lot of the "mini comp" thread. A competition, even if it is a friendly, low-level exhibition, is hardly the proper place to offer C&C. Such comments may sway the vote, even if the comments are correct.

I had the privilege of offering one of my own photographs in an experiment conducted by The_Traveler (Lew) in which the poster included some much-needed information as to how to evaluate the photograph and which components were in question, if any. I didn't see how that all went, but I think Lew was onto something.

If each poster included some background information, and asked specific questions about the photo, the viewers could zero in on the most important aspects and offer valuable, pointed criticism.

The opposite of that is a posted photo with the one-word invitation: "Thoughts?"

I hate to publicly tell you what some of my thoughts are regarding such posts.
 
Here we go again, but I am calmly curious.

I come across a photo of a nice sunset. Sunsets are a dime a dozen. This one is typical but just "nice".

So, unless I'm going to write a full critque about this "nice" sunset, I shouldn't post anything at all and pass it by?

Trust me folks, I'm not trying to stir the pot again, but I am trying to understand the reasoning.
Personally, I'd rather get a "like" or "nice" then 130 hits with zero replies just because it's only "nice"

If there's something I can add to improve the shot, I will, but sometimes it's "just a pretty sunset" and I think the photographer should know it.
 
Here's a little Excercise the Noobies Can Play........

..... but let me give you a little back story first. When I first joined TPF I had been on a several year hiatus from shooting much of anything and previously it had all been film. Digital photography was completely new to me even though most of the basics remained true. I was just the terms being used, the slang and acronyms took a while to set in my mind. Hell, I didn't even know what RTFM or STFU meant with only four letters, much less what ROFLMAO was supposed to be about.

So after that bit of acclimation became more comfortable, I wanted to learn AND be a contributing member. Yep, I started out with the "I like it"; "Good job" and such. But back then, there really was more support of the community with helpful advice. Not just on my photos, it was evenly distrubuted. I started to really pay attention to the other members that I found particularly gratious with their time for commenting on photos that were in dire need of assistance. Then I had a thought.....


Here's the Excercise Part.....

Before I would read any previous comments on a photo posted for C&C, I would study the image. I would deconstruct it to the best of my ability and elvaluate it on its own merits. Initially, I would jot down notes on paper and shortly aftewards I would trust my memory.... always a bad move on my part. :lol: Only after my own analysis would I read the other comments. The more times I was in the concensus, the more confidence I had to actually type my comments for C&C. The kick in the pants was when some of those same members that I held to high regard began to comment on my comments in a positive manner, that I felt that I actually have learned a few things about photography.

So there it is. If you're intimidated to comment on a photo due to insecurity, do it anyway, but just keep it to yourself. Was it Mark Twain that said "It is best to be considered a fool, than to open your mouth and be proven so"? (or something like that).

Ha! This is *exactly* what I did--still do quite often, truth be told, because I'm not yet completely confident in my ability to accurately assess a photo for C&C. It's not really about caring whether I'm in the majority opinion, it's more about wanting to learn. So I look at the picture and think about MY thoughts on it, but I don't post a reply. Later, I'll look back at it and see if anyone whose opinion I value and trust has commented, and see whether my C&C is pretty much in line, or if they point out things I missed. Sometimes, their C&C disagrees with mine, but in a way that is clearly just a matter of opinion, which is fine.


I read at least four of the replies to this--I guess I shouldn't be surprised that threads like this go on and on, while the threads actually ASKING for C&C can die such quick deaths of neglect. :D
I typed a long, incredibly insightful treatise on all this--but then I deleted it, because even *I* didn't want to read it all.

Basically:

I personally LOVE any response to my threads at all. Even if it's "great pic" when I know that, in fact, it is NOT a great pic, is appreciated because if nothing else, at least it bumps the thread so that maybe someone whose opinion I value will now see it and comment.

I do get what the OP is saying, that several "cool!," "awesome," "great pic" comments can make someone think their photo is better than it is, and then perhaps when a more qualified C&C comes along that pans it, they dismiss that.

But I honestly can't see anything that will ever change that, short of requiring moderation on every single comment before it's posted. And I'm sure our volunteer mods would LOVE doing THAT!!
People are either willing and eager to learn, or they aren't. If they really want to improve, they will quickly learn that while the "great pic" comments are a nice ego boost, the REAL value is in those who give you ways to improve or help you learn how to better evaluate the photo yourself.

My skills have probably increased threefold since I came here (which still don't really make them anything to brag about!), and I mostly attribute that to the fact that I found probably five or six people whose opinions I really valued (and one or two that I valued enough to consider them to be mentors, and pestered them with questions unceasingly. :D ) and when one of those people comments on a photo, whether good or bad--I LISTEN.

And while most of the time, I do try to give practical C&C (to the best of my still limited ability), sometimes, I just "like" it. Or I just don't like it. I personally think it's valuable to know the overall response your photo has with people of varying skill levels.
 
Eh. Life's too short to get worked up about this. It's nice to acknowledge someone's effort. If the image is kinda good, but not exceptional, what do you say? If the image is kinda off, it's easier to make a comment or two. But a true critique - that's actually hard work, and most of us don't want to work hard when we're chilling (which is when we're on TPF). So if your image was blessed by a good critique, then call it a good day and thank the person who took the time to think and write about it. For myself, I think I have a reasonably good grasp of the technical stuff, but I always like to check perceptions of certain images, as I know all too well that self-deception is very easy.
 
Well I will go ahead and name-drop: Overread, PGRIZ, Designer and TCampbell come to mind when I think of opinions/knowledge I value. There are many others of course. I am guessing it has much to do with the manner they chose to help or critique.
 
Well I will go ahead and name-drop: Overread, PGRIZ, Designer and TCampbell come to mind when I think of opinions/knowledge I value. There are many others of course. I am guessing it has much to do with the manner they chose to help or critique.

Ooooh! you mentioned me in the company of THOSE guys? I'm honoured. Not necessarily deserving of that, but I'll take it. :lol:
 
O.K., Paul, that made me laugh out loud! I'll go to my grave thinking that you were sincere.
 

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