Digital MF - my first taste

usayit · Jul 17, 2008

Pleasently smooth bokeh as expected....

CofC is different for MF although I would think more DOF is obtained from equivalent 35mm (correct me if I'm wrong). The "grain" is pretty nice too even at 100% crop.

How does handling feel? I wasn't too big in waste level viewfinder in the hassy 500 (although there is a prism for it). The big bright built-in viewfinder was one of the selling points for my Pentax 645. I bet the jpg posted doesn't do the full size print justice.

bigalbest · Jul 17, 2008

What are your thoughts on this camera vs. the 1DS MKIII?

Iron Flatline · Jul 17, 2008

I really want to like this camera, but right now I think it is more than I need.

I will be spending the summer in Los Angeles, and working with a photographer who only uses digital MF as part of his fine art projects as well as his work photographing architecture. I expect to learn a lot more, and will then have to see if I want to buy something like this.

Life has been good to me, I've done some things right and also had luck. That means I could afford to buy something like this, but I worry about how it will change my relationship to photography. Right now it is a great hobby, but will I feel guilty if I don't use it every free minute that I have? I am pursuing a creative project right now, but I need to see if I can meet the needs with a 1Ds... or conversely, if a digital MF system gives me the tools with which to realize a whole new level of this project.

Arch · Jul 17, 2008

Interesting read, thanks Iron :thumbup:

dEARlEADER · Jul 17, 2008

What a great thread...

bigalbest · Jul 17, 2008

Iron Flatline said:
I really want to like this camera, but right now I think it is more than I need.

I will be spending the summer in Los Angeles, and working with a photographer who only uses digital MF as part of his fine art projects as well as his work photographing architecture. I expect to learn a lot more, and will then have to see if I want to buy something like this.

Life has been good to me, I've done some things right and also had luck. That means I could afford to buy something like this, but I worry about how it will change my relationship to photography. Right now it is a great hobby, but will I feel guilty if I don't use it every free minute that I have? I am pursuing a creative project right now, but I need to see if I can meet the needs with a 1Ds... or conversely, if a digital MF system gives me the tools with which to realize a whole new level of this project.

Very well said, and thanks for the information.

Iron Flatline · Jul 17, 2008

usayit, to answer your question on the handling: it's very nice, but it's not a camera designed for street photography, sports or journalism. There is a lot of functionality, and it offers a ton of control. You either use this camera in a studio where you have a lot of control over the environment, or you use it in a place where you can set up and shoot and compensate as much as possible photographically.

BUT - in those situations the handling is spectacular. It is a modern system built by professionals (which, btw, means it comes with AF and Program Modes!) There is a dozen buttons and dials in unexpected locations that make total sense the first time you put your hand through the leather grip at the handle.

Iron Flatline · Jul 17, 2008

OMG

I finally have a very loose comparison.

The first is shot with a Canon 1Ds Mk III.
ISO 100, 30 seconds, f/11, Canon TS-E 24mm L

The second is shot with a Leaf AFi 5, with a Leaf Aptus 22 back.
ISO 200, 32 seconds, f/16, Schneider-Kreuznach Xenotar 80mm

I know it is hard to tell from these tiny JPGs, but I consider the Canon 1Ds image far superior. The big MF Leaf cannot do longer exposures, the noise on the RAW file is tremendous. On my screen it looks like there is tiny fireworks due to all the hot spots. The Canon, on the other hand, is nearly flawless.

32 seconds is maximum exposure time for the Leaf, and considering I'm working on a dusk and night project, this renders the camera effectively useless.

Big Mike · Jul 17, 2008

Even at this size, the noise of the Leaf image is quite apparent. Granted, ISO 200 is what, three stops above the native ISO?

It looks like you found the weakness, which pretty much makes the choice obvious for you. For a more studio orientated photographer, that might not be the case.

Iron Flatline · Jul 17, 2008

Not yet - to be clear, my goal is to evaluate several different MF systems, always with the 1Ds in the back of my mind.

Phase One is considered the leading Digital Back maker, and their backs mount on most systems. They do particularly well with Mamiya (the latest of which is also available badged as the Phase One 645) and Hasselblad. P1 can do 1 Hour exposures and longer, with extremely low noise.

But this was my first step.

Big Mike · Jul 17, 2008

Ah...gotcha. I guess the 'getting there' is half the fun, isn't it?

usayit · Jul 17, 2008

Yes... great thread Iron. Thanks! Very well said. I thought about moving from my 1dMarkII to the 1dsMIII a few months ago. I opted to stay with the 1dMarkII for the same reasons you stated. Right now, the M8 and 1dMII is more than I need without "change to my relationship to photography" as you so very well put it.

So... I noticed you graduated from your 5D to the 1DS markIII. Very nice quality that I can even see in the JPEG posted. Just remember that you can still do MF or LF and film..... even with a nice scanner. I sure find a lot of enjoyment and possibilities in that route.

Iron Flatline · Jul 18, 2008

Oh, that's another good point I keep forgetting about. There may not be a need to move to the 1Ds, in fact the 5D Mk II may prove to be good enough. I need three things from the Canon - good ISO handling, LiveView, and weather-sealing (which the MF cameras don't even have.) If the sensor in the new 5D will be the same as the 1Ds and it is priced competitively with the D700, then I am really out of excuses. Heck, then I would just buy the new 5D regardless of what I decide, because it'll cost about as much as a lens for a dMF camera.

Village Idiot · Jul 18, 2008

Iron Flatline said:
I will be happy to post something, but I have to make one comment: the only reason to work with a camera like this is in pursuit of a large, detailed print. Anything I post as a JPG on the web will border on the irrelevant. There will be virtually no visual proof of the camera's ability visible at 800x533 pixels and 72 dpi.

It's about the print on the wall, I'm really feeling strongly about that these days. All this web stuff is fun for my photoblog and street photography, but the print matters.

Actually, wouldn't the tones and transitions be smoother? When I see 5D vs. Crop or any MF photos on the web, they always appear to be higher quality and have a nice smoother over all appearance. This could have to do with the down sizing that occurs, but they just look better.

Do'Urden's Eyes · Jul 24, 2008

I will continue to read this thread. Very interresting read, even for some one who is not even close to being at the level needed to morally support the purchase of a 1ds or any MF. Thanks Iron.