Discouraged and seeking advice about business

[Park]

KmH, thanks so much for all your indepth replies. I understand about getting a contract or something along those lines. But, I think I used the wrong word when I said business. I think I may have meant, "hobby where I make extra money" lol. It neve crossed my mind about having to deal with getting a license or taxes. That is all almost overwhelming.

Well here's the chance to make it a hobby again. Forget about making extra money and turn it back into fun. Shoot for fun and you are going to avoid all the time and effort it will take to make even minor income. That income when properly accounted for, if a profit at all, will probably mean you shot for pennies not dollars.

Photography is a wonderful hobby but a really lousy business these days. You have a full time job. Do you really need to make your hobby into another job?

 

[KmH]

KmH, thanks so much for all your indepth replies. I understand about getting a contract or something along those lines. But, I think I used the wrong word when I said business. I think I may have meant, "hobby where I make extra money" lol. It neve crossed my mind about having to deal with getting a license or taxes. That is all almost overwhelming.

Start here: Business Online Services

 

[McMommy]

KmH, thanks so much for all your indepth replies. I understand about getting a contract or something along those lines. But, I think I used the wrong word when I said business. I think I may have meant, "hobby where I make extra money" lol. It neve crossed my mind about having to deal with getting a license or taxes. That is all almost overwhelming.

Well here's the chance to make it a hobby again. Forget about making extra money and turn it back into fun. Shoot for fun and you are going to avoid all the time and effort it will take to make even minor income. That income when properly accounted for, if a profit at all, will probably mean you shot for pennies not dollars.

Photography is a wonderful hobby but a really lousy business these days. You have a full time job. Do you really need to make your hobby into another job?

No such thing as too much money, and I think if you can find value in the form of money from something you enjoy very much, you should go for it. Price it fairly, according to your skills and expenses, and people who also see the value of your work will pay for it.

I really don't think it's fair to imply that you must go big or go home in this industry. In my case, I'm a stay at home mom, and we'd LOVE to have extra income. This hobby makes it a possibility down the road when I'm confident and much better practiced. No reason he can't do it too, for whatever his reasons are!


That all said, you should make sure you read up on the laws and do it legally. You really don't want a hobby to become a hassle if you find yourself in trouble with the IRS or other photographers in your area you may be undercutting, when they are doing everything by the book.

 

[bennielou]

Ok, I ignored all the other responses, not because they weren't valid, but because I didn't want to be side tracked.

First of all, you need to figure out what your MAIN photography is. What do you want to do, and what are you best at. What is your target market? Delete the rest. Don't junk up your site with all things that don't pertain to business.

If you want to do portraits, and you believe in your work, don't charge less than $50 bucks as a beginner. People need to value your work.

 

[Derrel]

I looked at both your web site and your Facebook web site,and I think you need to improve your posing of couples. Your man + wife poses are not very refined, with the head heights being a bit off,and the bottoms of the frames cropping people off a bit unacceptably. On that cute little boy in the vest, photographed in the woods, on the Facebook web site, the photos look slightly softy, and lacking in contrast. Overall, the work you're offering seems to be close to traditional portraiture, but the portfolio shots lack that last little bit of professional 'edge'. If you have only been into this for a year, I think it's unrealistic to think that it will be easy to book paid sessions with the kind of work you are showing in the genre you are showing,and I think you'd benefit by getting some additional training in posing and portraiture work and some mentoring to help elevate your technical skills. In today's market, there is a huge amount of competition,and some very talented and much more-experienced shooters and business people with whom you are competing.

 

[eric-holmes]

Ok, I ignored all the other responses, not because they weren't valid, but because I didn't want to be side tracked.

First of all, you need to figure out what your MAIN photography is. What do you want to do, and what are you best at. What is your target market? Delete the rest. Don't junk up your site with all things that don't pertain to business.

If you want to do portraits, and you believe in your work, don't charge less than $50 bucks as a beginner. People need to value your work.

Well, I started out just doing general photography things. Like artwork except with a camera. Then I thought I wanted to do some type of fashion photography. NO market for that here in small town, Arkansas. So now I am trying to move myself into a more "mom friendly" business for kids, seniors and families.

I looked at both your web site and your Facebook web site,and I think you need to improve your posing of couples. Your man + wife poses are not very refined, with the head heights being a bit off,and the bottoms of the frames cropping people off a bit unacceptably. On that cute little boy in the vest, photographed in the woods, on the Facebook web site, the photos look slightly softy, and lacking in contrast. Overall, the work you're offering seems to be close to traditional portraiture, but the portfolio shots lack that last little bit of professional 'edge'. If you have only been into this for a year, I think it's unrealistic to think that it will be easy to book paid sessions with the kind of work you are showing in the genre you are showing,and I think you'd benefit by getting some additional training in posing and portraiture work and some mentoring to help elevate your technical skills. In today's market, there is a huge amount of competition,and some very talented and much more-experienced shooters and business people with whom you are competing.

Thanks Derrel. I need to go through and delete a lot of my older pictures so they don't bring down the rest. Would you look at the picture you were talking about on my real website and tell me if you still see what you are talking about? http://www.ericholmesphotography.com/Portraits/Children/11942499_LAHrj#824929170_6GgDs-A-LB

 

[ghpham]

I took a quick look the your new page and I think posing still need some work. For example, in the Craig and Jessica photo shoot, how come Craig is not more intimate with Jessica? his arms are pretty much limp (except the last photo, but then Craig's left hand is in his pocket).

 

[tsaraleksi]

I think you're not doing a great job utilizing your smugmug page's full potential. It is more than possible to put together a smug page that looks clean and fairly professional.

I'll throw up my site as an example -- I'm decidedly semi-pro, a college student who is not pursuing photography past graduation-- so ignore my gallery organization

Alex Turco Photography

Also, I'm not sure what level of smugmug user you are, but if you want to sell prints, I'd strongly advise upgrading to their pro level if you're not there already.

 

[Newcastle Shooter]

Hey Eric,

The good thing you have going for you is your willingness to learn and progress.

If you havent already figured it out - its tough!

I have went through all this when i started out and sometimes even forums really discouraged me too. It's a highly competitive market and there are many things you NEED to do to increase your chances of business. The ones I found were:

- have a pro looking website. I like your site but smugmug sites tend to have cracks in them allowing the customer to see through them and question it. I once had a smugmug site and never found a layout I was comfortable with. Screens are wide and so are your eyes - smugmug always seems to scrap the left and right space and require alot of scrolling up and down. Doesnt marry up well for me.

-a continuation of the first point. Make it easy for people. Somebody said "people are lazy" - blunt but true. Having to actively scroll and search for galleries is never good.

-Upfront and clear pricing. I couldnt find your prices on your main site - this is a must.

-Marketing and SEO. How do people find your site? After looking on your site you dont mention where you are based. In the past 6 months I have been studying SEO and have now recently got google page 1 position 1 for event photography newcastle and position 2 for wedding photography newcastle - its taken me a good few months but cost me nothing and its now paying dividends with daily enquiries. Your site needs to be visable on relevent searches such as family photography boston or portrait photography miami - or whatever suits. This doesnt happen overnight but its all part and parcel of sarting and growing a business.

-Your photography. You have a good starting point in my opinion and the more you do the better it should get. I learn more and feel I improve with every shoot i do.

Don't be too discouraged - you're not doing much wrong, you're just not doing everything you can. I'm not an expert either - just sharing my experiences as I have went through all the same stuff. If you decide to invest more time and effort (and money!) into your venture i would reconsider your site though. Then build up from there.

Hope that helps - and all the very best of luck to you!

Paul.

Could I also add - Alex Turco's smugmug is a good plain clean example site.

 

[tsaraleksi]

Paul I *think* your comment is positive? I'll take it that way anyway

Eric, one more thing to keep in mind is that you're in a small town, trying to get into business during some fairly rough economic times. Chances are that the average person to whom you are marketing your photography is not exactly flush with extra money at the moment and is disinclined to shell out for stuff like family portraits. Just something to keep in mind.

 

[Newcastle Shooter]

Alex - you can certainly take it as positive I like your site - and your photos too.

 

[manaheim]

This is probably going to sound a little bizarre, but I'd bet you money that one of your biggest problems is that you are WAY too cheap.

I won't go into it in too much detail because everyone's probably going to jump all over me for saying it, but mark my words... charge more and you'll probably do a lot better.

 

[tsaraleksi]

This is probably going to sound a little bizarre, but I'd bet you money that one of your biggest problems is that you are WAY too cheap.

I won't go into it in too much detail because everyone's probably going to jump all over me for saying it, but mark my words... charge more and you'll probably do a lot better.

When people don't know how to judge which product is better, they assume that the more expensive product is the better one

 

[Jim Gratiot]

I won't go into it in too much detail because everyone's probably going to jump all over me for saying it, but mark my words... charge more and you'll probably do a lot better.

Nope, this is right on... too many photographers are hesitant to charge what they're worth. And the more you charge, the more perceived value you will have in the marketplace... and the more success you will ultimately have.

 

[jt69]

Here are my two cents... Ramp up on your technique... practice practice and practice... All your photos are what I call flat lighting.. They look like you put the camera in Auto and fire away. So , portraits come flat. Get your flash off camera,this will help. On the other note!. Photography business is about relationships... Is not only how good you are but how good you can relate with others.. Your friends are the best marketing tool you can have right now and free... Use them.

I think the pricing goes in hand with the quality of work you are delivering. Try to find out what is fair pricing on your town and adjust accordingly. You don't want to advertise that you are a newbie with your pricing motto.

My 2cents..