Don't laugh...

dissembled · Feb 27, 2006

My God. I'm a total newb at film photography so excuse my stupi...ignorance. Film scanners and flat bed scanners.. I know that they scan your negatives into your computer. The things is I'm not really sure what 'negatives' are. lol. I went to the wiki page and I'm given the impression that negatives is the 'exposed' film that comes out of your camera after you finish a roll of film. Is that right? No wait...they're the brown strips that show the inverse-colored image aren't they? But that's not what comes directly from your camera when you take a roll of film out is it? So...uhhh you go to a photolab w/ the film and they give you your negatives, right? My question is how do you 'create' the negatives in the first place? What materials do you need? I do know that prints are created through an enlarger using negatives. I know that much. Oh and another thing. In this amazon page, it says that this flat bed scanner accepts 120 roll of film... [ame]http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002U40NG/sr=1-3/qid=1141026273/ref=pd_bbs_3/102-5135546-3622558?%5Fencoding=UTF8[/ame] Meaning that I could just take off the film from my Holga and just put in the thing in the scanner and voila have the photo in my computer?? Thanks in advance. Sigh.

e_ · Feb 27, 2006

Hello dissembled

Welcome to The Photo Forum

dissembled said:
My question is how do you 'create' the negatives in the first place? What materials do you need?

(i) a camera - your Holga should be fine

and

(ii) film - a roll of 120 should do the trick

dissembled said:
Oh and another thing. In this amazon page, it says that this flat bed scanner accepts 120 roll of film...meaning that I could just take off the film from my Holga and just put in the thing in the scanner and voila have the photo in my computer?? ?

Correct - or, more correctly, after the film has been processed at a lab

Please post back with all your question; you'll be in good company

Have fun!

e_

df3photo · Feb 27, 2006

haha...(sorry, not laffin at you... laffin with you...)
You create the negitive. It does come from the roll of film that goes inside your camera. after you expose it (in your camera by taking pictures) it gets developed, meaning the ... hold on... try this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_(photography)
Negative
The developed film that contains a reversed tone image of the original scene.
anyway what you get back from the photolab is the same stuff that was inside your camera. it goes threw chemicals and some/most is washed off creating the "negitive"image. its a magical process... that must have been a pain in the ass to figure out how to do...
the negitives are made up of LIGHT SENSITIVE layers from bottom up Color film goes Anit-halation Backing (plastic), Red-sensitive emulsion, Green-sensitive emulsion, Blue-sensitive emulsion then Anti-scratch coating. B&W film is like from bottom up this Anti-halation coating (plastic), firm base, gelatin/silver halide crystal emulsion, then scratch resistant coating.... then threw a process of "developing" the film gets bathed and swirled around in chemicals going from Developer to stop bath and Fixer then drys and you have your negitives...(theres more to it that that but thats the basics)

the scanner part... that scanner will except 120 negitives (the type your holga takes)... BUT, dont just pull them from your camera... you will need to get them developed first at the photolab. And remember that ALL film IS light sensitive... so you cant just take film into the light without damaging it.
here are acouple more links to check out.
http://www.silverlight.co.uk/tutorials/compose_expose/film.html
http://photography.about.com/od/basics/a/bpfilmcamera.htm
http://photography.about.com/od/basics/
Good luck, I hoped I helped some... I wasnt sure how to explaine it easily so I did consult one of my photo books... I hope I wasnt toooo confusing...

dissembled · Feb 27, 2006

Thanks guys..Hehe So you'll need the film to be processed to create the negatives. And these negatives can then be used to create prints.. But can't you process the negatives yourself w/o taking it to a lab? I know you'll need chemicals do it but I'm guessing that's it's not that expensive to do right? I mean it's gonna be less expensive than actually developing the prints? I plan to take photos, process my negatives and scan the negs to my lappie to get the pics w/o ever going to a lab. Possible? Thanks.

df3photo · Feb 27, 2006

Sure, its possible to do it all yourself. Just the cost in the end with multiple rolls of film being developed would be cheaper. but you will need a Developing tank, reels for the film to wrap around for inside the tank A dark room to do this in. (some practice in putting the film on the reels in the dark) then the chemicals will probably be in bulk (developer, stop bath, and fixer) , and somewhere DUST FREE to hang your negitives to dry (like a film dryer...) which you can build if you have to http://www.shutterbug.net/techniques/film_processing/0902sb_how/index.html
I would recomend getting a book on the whole method and it wouldnt hurt to find someone whose done it acouple times to run you threw it acouple times.
once the film is dry, you can cut it to your desired length and scan away...

dissembled · Feb 27, 2006

Hey thanks a lot Df3. What keywords should I google up so I can get a step by step guide on how to process medium-format negatives?

And also..do you know if processing medium-format negatives are different from processing 35mm ones? I don't want to follow a 35mm tutorial and screw up my 120 film.
Thanks.

df3photo · Feb 27, 2006

Google Words try :"How to" ,B&W Developing, medium format film processing, basicaly anywords you cant think of pertaining to it...
I belive the processes are going to be the same for 35mm and 120film, but the rolls you put the film on are different sizes. I do belive they make ones that will do both but make sure when you buythem first.

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00F9Yb&tag=
http://www.photo.net/bboard/forum?topic_id=1822
abuch of answeres above.

How to:
http://www.photogs.com/bwworld/bwfilmdev.html

As for the rolls being different, they should come with loading instructions. When you put the film on the real try not to have the film touch itself or you will get spots of undeveloped film. I recomend using a roll of film to practice a bunch of times in the light befor going to the dark. and make sure you get all the paper off the 120 film roll befor putting it into the tank.
good luck.

PlasticSpanner · Feb 27, 2006

Or take a look at this thread!

http://thephotoforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30670

It can be very informative hearing how other people process their films and can give a good insight as to exactly what is involved, step by step!:thumbup:

df3photo · Feb 27, 2006

I never even thought to look here...lol...
Looks like alot of info there...

Unimaxium · Feb 27, 2006

OK I think I can simplify things a little here. I'm probably reiterating a lot other people have said, but I just wanted to lay it all out to make sure everything's clear.

Here is how B&W negative film works. It's pretty much the same for 120 film as well as for normal 35mm film. First, when you expose a shot on a roll of film in your camera, a chemical reaction takes place wherever enough light hits. When you take it to a lab to be developed (or when you develop it yourself), you wash the film with certain chemicals that first: darkens any areas that were exposed on the film (by reacting the chemical with any of the film that reacted to light), second: makes transparent any areas that were not exposed, and third: makes the film no longer light-sensitive (more or less chemically inert). So after development, any areas that were exposed by light become dark, and areas that were not exposed are transparent. Thus you have your negative, since the light areas became dark and the dark areas are light. So to answer one of your questions: indeed, the film that you put in your camera is the same film that you get back from the lab; all the lab does is chemically treat the film to make it useable to make prints.

Color film is a pretty similar process, except the film has multiple layers, each sensitive to a different color. When it's developed, extra steps are added to the end of the process to differentiate the colors.

Using traditional darkroom methods, when you went to make a print, you would put the developed negative in an enlarger and project it onto paper (essential film on a paper base instead of a transparent one). This creates a negative of the negative, producing a positive.

An alternative is of course to use a scanner to make a digital file of the image, allowing you to print on an inkjet printer. I'm sure you understand that part ;-)

Developing your own B&W film is relatively simple, but it's a bit of a tedious and error-prone process. It's even harder with color, as slight variations of development time or temperature will cause noticeable color shifts. You can usually get away with more mistakes when doing B&W. Most of the time if you take it to a good lab you'll get good results, because they have good equipment and trained staff (unless they're not such a good lab). When you do it yourself, you'll likely be more prone to errors. Also, it takes practice to learn to process your own film well, and you'll probably mess up a few rolls from time to time while learning.

And like I mentioned, the development process is the same for 120 film as it is for 35mm. The only main difference is how you load the film onto a reel to process it.