Einsteins?

[MLeeK]

I know Mike said he has one... anyone else?
I have seriously been thinking about adding a couple. I have a couple of older white lightning 5000's that have seen some better days. The enisteins have caught my eye since day one.
So... those who have used them tell me about them. Pro's and con's? Is it a good value for the $ or would I be better off going with White Lighting again or something else? White Lightning just happens to be what I have and know-and only really by accident. I bought out a studio long ago and that's how I ended up with the WL brand.
It's been fantastic to me. I do have a couple of Flashpoint's. I bought one of another photographer and I got one as a prize or something at an adorama seminar. I am impressed by them and I use them as my portables. Reasoning: if a drunk groomsmen or basketball or player takes one of them out? I am out maybe a couple hundred bucks.

I think my year end budget will allow me into 2 einstein units with speedrings for my softboxes, etc. along with the lens I want, etc. However if it's not worth it? there are other lenses I REALLY REALLY want... LOL!

 

[shootermcgavin]

If they are anything like their bagels I would buy a few and some cream cheese.

 

[Patrice]

If they are anything like their bagels I would buy a few and some cream cheese.

?

 

[Big Mike]

You must have misread or misunderstood. I have AB lights, not the Einstein. (unless you mean another Mike :er: )

I don't know anyone who actually has one...nor have I looked into them since the first came out...after being promised for what, two years?

 

[Mach0]

I wouldn't be able to give you honest feed back but I know a buddy of mine loves his. I've seen some of his work and the lighting is awesome.

 

[MLeeK]

You must have misread or misunderstood. I have AB lights, not the Einstein. (unless you mean another Mike :er: )

I don't know anyone who actually has one...nor have I looked into them since the first came out...after being promised for what, two years?

Well, crap. I misread another post because I thought you said you had one.

 

[Big Mike]

I mentioned it in the same post that I also mentioned having two B800s and two B400s.

There are a few bigger/bussier forums that have plenty of members with real experience or knowledge of them. Go check them out (but come right back here after)

 

[MLeeK]

I will.
Everyone here is so opinionated I thought maybe I'd really get the good, bad and ugly! LOL!

I am not ready to purchase until I do my taxes in January, so I have time...

 

[Village Idiot]

The first ones had problems with dying unexpectedly. I would hope that would have fixed that by now. That's P C Buff's business practice though, let the user beta test the product.

 

[Derrel]

They are really expensive in terms of the output you get for $500. What Buff calls a "640" would be like a "300 watt-second", or lower, power level in Speedotron...three, low-powered lights for $1,500??? zOMG...I cannot figure out why people buy into this monolight nonsense for studio work when pack-and-head systems offer so much more output for so,so much less money!!!

Buff does impressive marketing work on his company's products, I will hand it to him on that score. And when the stuff breaks, which seems like all the time, they replace it with another off-shore made, but partially-assembled-in-USA product.

To my way of thinking, monolights are a total waste of money on two levels: when you need ONE light with a LOT of power, monolights cost a fortune. And, when you need a few lights at LOW power, monolights are a huge,huge waste of money. For example, using 11.5 in ch reflectors, a 20 degree grid, and a snap-on mylar diffuser, one Speedotron flash head. like say a $75 used M-11 Brown Line head, will back-light or hair-light a group of people at 25 watt-seconds...you read that right, 25 watt-seconds...and the same effect could also be acheived by using a lower-cost MW3U or M90 flash head and grid, for around $35 to $55 for the flash head and tube, used on eBay...Orrrrrrrrr, a customer could pay $499 for an Eistein 640, only to dial the power output down to 1/8 power, and in the process, waste around $425 of his or her money on un-used potential.

Want a classic, 5-light portrait setup that delivers beautiful light? Einstein 640 x 5 = $2,499.75 just for the LIGHTS, without any modifiers or stands.

That is a HUGE amount of wasted money. "640" might as well be called "300". A used Speedtron 6-outlet 1201A pack is $250-$300. Just saw one this week for $225 buy-it-now. Top-quality 202VF heads are $200 each, and can handle up to 2,400 watt-seconds per flashtube (Buff would call that a 5,000-watt-second flash! lol).

Used 2400-series packs are $375 to $500 and have 6 outlets, in 3 power channnels...and at the output an Einstein 640 gives, they are barely working, and recycling in .5 seconds...

Village Idiot had a nice two-pack, 1205/4-outlet pack and 405/3-outlet pack +three 202VF flash head package for sale at I think $2,000 just this week...

 

[Big Mike]

If you are going to compare prices, wouldn't it be reasonable to also include prices for new pack & head systems and used monolights as well? :er:

 

[Derrel]

If you are going to compare prices, wouldn't it be reasonable to also include prices for new pack & head systems and used monolights as well? :er:

Well, I think buying new lighting gear is stupid, especially if there are around 35 years' worth of working, professional-level Black Line packs and heads on the market, right now. And on eBay you can choose from 6 pages worth of Speedo gear every day. The Einstein has been made in very small amounts, and is for all intents, a consumer-level product, sold only by ONE, single vendor, with no network support, just Buff, in Florida. And there is virtually no used market for Einsteins...it has not developed yet...might not either....who knows...

Bought a used D402 Brown line pack from ebay for $49.95, not working. I shipped it to Speedotron Corporation, 310 South Racine, Chicago, with a letter inside and told them to make it work. ABout a week later, I got a call from a guy who said they needed $70 to completely re-build the capacitors, and it would cost $19.95 for Us Postal Shipping back to me. So, I was out 50 + 70 + 40 for shipping to and from Chicago. And I got what is basically a brand-new $389 pack for a total investment of $160.

As far as Speedotron flash heads...they are made of metal...they last 40 to 50 years. When they get dropped, they do not break. They might dent, but they do not stop working. Used M90 lights come up for $45 apiece occasionally, $50,$60 quite often...I have some made in the 1980's, 1990's, 2000's...there are literally three full decades' worth of "new-style Brown Line heads on the market...so buying "new" ones makes very little sense...we;'re dealing with a "lifetime build quality" product made with simple technology, versus a new product, the Einstein, that is three years late, didn't work right when it finally made it, and is made offshore and is designed to be swapped out when dropped...

Once a guy BUYS a lighting system, it is "used"; "New" lighting is for suckers, in my book. If a person needs lights, and buys Speedotron, they are buying lifetime-level lighting gear and letting some sucker take the depreciation factor, and getting the same stuff for 25% of retail cost--or less.

ebay: "Einstein, in Cameras and Photo", 5 items, NO LIGHTS though: Einstein | eBay

eBay: "Speedotron, in same category" 278 items, LOADs of items. Speedotron | eBay

 

[Big Mike]

Fair enough. :salute:

 

[MLeeK]

I knew someone would have a good argument for/against them!
So, Derrel... I have never looked at the speedtron stuff and I think I need an education...
Can you break it all down in moron terms for me?
As in what all would I need? If I were to add 2 main units or if I were to go with a full 4 light setup...

Is there a difference in triggering?

 

[KmH]

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