Elijah Craig - Small Batch 12 Year Bourbon

Tuffythepug · Dec 12, 2012

fjrabon said:
I drank a lot of makers in college. Now, eh, I mean its okay I guess. Wheated bourbons seem to lack character to my tastes. Their new makers 46 is pretty good though. I thought it would be gimmicky, but you really can taste the flavor of the added oak staves. Plus I think it's aged better.

By the way, Elijah Craig 12 is as expensive or more than makers, so it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense to get it to save your makers. EC 12 is cheap... For 12 year old bourbon. It's still definitely NOT a cheap bourbon. My favorite cheap-ish mixing bourbon is Jim Beam 7 year old.

Yeah, I wasn't clear in my post. I wouldn't be buying the Elijah Craig as a substitute for the usual fare I offer the crew: I expect I'd give it a taste and keep it in my "private reserve" category with the Maker's Mark. I have a good friend who buys Evan Williams Bourbon by the half-gallon; far too regularly, unfortunately. But he mixes it with diet 7up... a concoction he just calls his "cowboy drink" for some reason. I'd certainly wouldn't be tempted to offer him the "good stuff".

fjrabon · Dec 12, 2012

Tuffythepug said:
Yeah, I wasn't clear in my post. I wouldn't be buying the Elijah Craig as a substitute for the usual fare I offer the crew: I expect I'd give it a taste and keep it in my "private reserve" category with the Maker's Mark. I have a good friend who buys Evan Williams Bourbon by the half-gallon; far too regularly, unfortunately. But he mixes it with diet 7up... a concoction he just calls his "cowboy drink" for some reason. I'd certainly wouldn't be tempted to offer him the "good stuff".

When I worked at a bar in college, we had this one kid who drank Johnny Walker blue mixed with sprite. Also keep in mind this was a college bar and we only had plastic cups. We charged him 69 dollars per drink.

And he loved calling it the '69er' both to let everybody know how much his drinks cost and because he'd laugh at 69er every time.

cgipson1 · Dec 12, 2012

I will stick to my RedBreast 12!

JAC526 · Dec 12, 2012

I want to share mine:

I love me some Basil Hayden's. Its got more rye in it and has a nice peppery flavor.

JAC526 · Dec 12, 2012

fjrabon said:
Tuffythepug said:

Yeah, I wasn't clear in my post. I wouldn't be buying the Elijah Craig as a substitute for the usual fare I offer the crew: I expect I'd give it a taste and keep it in my "private reserve" category with the Maker's Mark. I have a good friend who buys Evan Williams Bourbon by the half-gallon; far too regularly, unfortunately. But he mixes it with diet 7up... a concoction he just calls his "cowboy drink" for some reason. I'd certainly wouldn't be tempted to offer him the "good stuff".

Click to expand...

When I worked at a bar in college, we had this one kid who drank Johnny Walker blue mixed with sprite. Also keep in mind this was a college bar and we only had plastic cups. We charged him 69 dollars per drink.

And he loved calling it the '69er' both to let everybody know how much his drinks cost and because he'd laugh at 69er every time.

Hello trust fund baby.

Tuffythepug · Dec 12, 2012

JAC526 said:
I want to share mine:

I love me some Basil Hayden's. Its got more rye in it and has a nice peppery flavor.

Oh, I love that stuff. I had a friend who owned a bar and she specialized in very fine whiskys. She gave me a lecture on the finer points of drinking the stuff. And since she had a couple of fine points herself (sorry for the sexist remark ladies) I was happy to listen and let her pour me samples of her favorites of which the was the top of the heap.

AgentDrex · Dec 12, 2012

When I worked at a bar in college, we had this one kid who drank Johnny Walker blue mixed with sprite. Also keep in mind this was a college bar and we only had plastic cups. We charged him 69 dollars per drink.

And he loved calling it the '69er' both to let everybody know how much his drinks cost and because he'd laugh at 69er every time.

WHAT??!!! Pour him a whole bottle or what? Geezuuuus!

Oh, I love that stuff. I had a friend who owned a bar and she specialized in very fine whiskys. She gave me a lecture on the finer points of drinking the stuff. And since she had a couple of fine points herself (sorry for the sexist remark ladies) I was happy to listen and let her pour me samples of her favorites of which the was the top of the heap.

Since this has become the whiskey/whisky thread, would you be willing to give us the finer points of drinking the stuff? I'd be interested in learning.

JAC526 · Dec 12, 2012

There is only one rule when drinking really high quality bourbon (for me at least) and that is just drink it neat.

Don't put water in it to "open it up" and for ****s sake please don't put ice in it.

Just pour and drink...so simple...so easy....so delicious.

Tuffythepug · Dec 12, 2012

Well, Craig, I am the furthest thing from an expert. And my tutelage on the finer points was some years ago. But here's what I can pass on. as JAC526 said, it should be drunk neat; no ice, no water, no anything. And it should be sipped; not gulped in one shot. With bourbon there's no discussion of the "smokiness" in the taste as there often is with scotch.
Blues or Jazz is the music of choice when imbibing the amber nectar of the gods but that's a matter of personal choice. Blues for me. and then.....

Pour, sip, repeat.

AgentDrex · Dec 12, 2012

Then I do well, I never ice it or water it

fjrabon · Dec 12, 2012

I'm going to disagree on the 'never ice it or water it' especially starting out. At first the pure alcohol will overwhelm the taste if you drink I that way before you're used to it. This is especially the case if you're drinking barrel proof bourbon, which is MEANT to be drank with a little water or ice.

Sure, don't overdo the water or especially the ice. Too much ice especially kills the flavor. Same for water. However, ultimately it should be drank to taste. If all you can taste is alcohol, you're doing it wrong. Similarly, if all you can taste is water with a whiskey hint to it, you're also doing it wrong.

The 'no water for any whiskey ever' people fail to understand if you're drinking pretty much any whiskey that's under 120 proof, water has been added. How much water needs to be added entirely depends on the individual drinker's palette. I typically like my bourbon around 80 proof, meaning bourbon stronger than that ill either add a little water or ice. 80 proof bourbon I tend to drink neat. But I also have about 50 whiskeys in my bar and usually have a dram most nights. My palette is probably better able to handle whiskey than most.

Most people who don't drink whiskey regularly probably need to add just a touch of water. Otherwise you're not getting all the subtle flavors that differentiate from great bourbon and good bourbon. You're just mostly tasting alcohol which is overwhelming your taste system, and alcohol tastes the same no matter what it came from.

How do you figure out how much water to add? Taste it. Does it taste like a kick to the head and that's about it? Or can you taste caramel, vanilla and maybe cinnamon flavors (the tastes of the caramelized sap from the charred oak barrels and the rye gives it the cinnamony kick). If you can't taste those flavors then add a bit of distilled water to tame down the alcohol a bit so you can pick up on the subtlety. A lot of people laugh when people say they can taste x, y and z flavors. Some people surely make things up when they taste things like eastern sugar plum extract. But you should be able to taste bourbons key tones. If you can't you're either drinking it with too much water or ice or not enough water or ice and are having your taste system overwhelmed.

Now the dumbest thing of all are 'whiskey stones' which have it completely backwards. To get the full flavor most whiskey should be drank around 60-65 degrees give or take (ie European room temperature). Whiskey stones mean the alcohol AND the temperature kill all the subtle flavor. It's literally the worst of all worlds as far as actually tasting premium whiskey flavor.

JAC526 · Dec 12, 2012

Sorry but I'm going to have to disagree. Barrel aged bourbon (like Blanton's or Bookers) is NOT meant to be drank with water and especially not with ice. Ice literally crushes any flavor (caramel, vanilla, cinnamon, pine etc) that a fine bourbon may have.

I understand that to get a uniform proof water is added to some bourbons. I just personally don't like adding any more water. I have drank a lot of bourbon (I used to live in Kentucky) and for me personally barrel proof bourbon is best without water added.

Others will disagree.

fjrabon · Dec 12, 2012

JAC526 said:
Sorry but I'm going to have to disagree. Barrel aged bourbon (like Blanton's or Bookers) is NOT meant to be drank with water and especially not with ice. Ice literally crushes any flavor (caramel, vanilla, cinnamon, pine etc) that a fine bourbon may have.

I understand that to get a uniform proof water is added to some bourbons. I just personally don't like adding any more water. I have drank a lot of bourbon (I used to live in Kentucky) and for me personally barrel proof bourbon is best without water added.

Others will disagree.

Well, Fred Noe and Jim Rutledge disagree. Sure, YOUR palette might be able to handle 130 proof bourbon. But most can't. Even booker noe admitted that the only reason he was able to drink barrel proof bourbon was because he literally drank bourbon every day for a living and that most people should add distilled water to suit their palettes. He specifically said that the vast majority of drinkers should drink his namesake bourbon with a splash of distilled water, and that when he had time to add distilled water, that was even how he himself preferred it.

Further, Blantons IS NOT barrel proof. It's around 90-92 proof depending on the batch. It is typically out of the barrel around 125-130 proof and then water is added to the master distiller's taste.

When Bill Samuels was once asked why he made Maker's Mark at 90 proof when it came out (at the time pretty much all bourbon but wild turkey was 80 proof) he said "we basically considered that 90 proof was as high as anybody would ever want to drink bourbon, and if they wanted a lower proof, like most drinkers do, they can add water to their own personal preference instead of having it dictated by me or anybody else, it's a concept of personal freedom. If they want strong bourbon they can have it, or of they want to open it up, they can have that too."

Edit: just to be clear, I'm not saying you're wrong for drinking bourbon neat. I'm saying you're wrong for claiming that is how bourbon should be drank by everybody. Bourbon should be drank to taste. For most people this means adding a bit of water (preferably distilled). For you it may not.

JAC526 · Dec 12, 2012

Fair enough. I like it straight. Others may not.

I've tried Booker's straight and with water. To me its better straight.

EDIT: There are a lot of big names in your post. I've only every bought Blanton's once and never even checked the proof. I just remember it as being oh so smooth and wonderful.