Everyone thinks they can be a pro! (RANT)

[JerryPH]

It's all the same thing, over and over for most "pros" couldn't care less because it puts bread on the table.

Not sure if the term "most pros" is accurate, though I am sure it is VERY true for many. Mindless repetition does NOT equal quality or useful experience. It is also a fact that any business person that doesn't care, is simply not going to be around for very long and during the time they are there... *are* giving nothing but crappy results!

However, I do see a large number of up and coming photographers entering the scene from all directions with a wildly different concept in mind:

- hey, how about we get REALLY good with our cameras and flashes
- get REALLY good with being creative and original, setting ourselves apart
- ...and finally, the cherry on top of the cake, let's become REALLY good at advanced networking, targeting, business and marketing techniques!

These people are going to not only put a spin on the current wedding photographer scene, they are going to put many of the ones who are stuck in the endless loop of "us old school TRUE professionals, we are right, you young-uns are all wrong" mentalities right on their butts or out of the playing field all together, unless they adapt to the (not so new), new rules in the game.

 

[manaheim]

Jerry, jerry, jerry... when are you Canadians going to learn that a hockey stick is an inappropriate tool for a variety of activities... including baseball, making pancakes, and dating.

 

[JerryPH]

Jerry, jerry, jerry... when are you Canadians going to learn that a hockey stick is an inappropriate tool for a variety of activities... including baseball, making pancakes, and dating.

We need to talk... seriously.
We all know that using a hockey stick will improve anyone's dating scene, but only if it curves to the right!

Never heard of "Lefty loosy, righty tighty"??

 

[manaheim]

wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwow.

*Chris closes his browser and goes to bed and has nightmares.*

 

[RMThompson]

Sorry if you’re found my statement harsh and no I don't really think everyone should give up photography as a hobby. However if you ask around it seems everyone that takes up photography as a hobby wants to make money at it.

A guy on the canon forum posted last week asking about starting up his new photography business and had a few questions about what he should do. He stated himself "Okay, so I've been building my portfolio and only have about 5 good shots (I just got my camera a couple of weeks ago"

I think that proves my point.

Yeah one person always proves a point to be 100% true. :banghead:

 

[heavenlymom]

I think everyone has to start somewhere. So long as people are honest about it who cares. Most of the newer photographers I see admit in their ads that they are just starting out. I've been doing photography for five years, not much time in terms of how long a lot of real pros out there have been doing it. Does that mean that just because I haven't been doing it as long that I am not a professional, nope. Professional is the way you go about it. Honesty, capability, a good eye, creativity and having a business, but more of all admitting that even after doing it for decades upon decades, you are always still just starting out as there are always new things to learn.
JMHO

 

[manaheim]

I think everyone has to start somewhere. So long as people are honest about it who cares. Most of the newer photographers I see admit in their ads that they are just starting out. I've been doing photography for five years, not much time in terms of how long a lot of real pros out there have been doing it. Does that mean that just because I haven't been doing it as long that I am not a professional, nope. Professional is the way you go about it. Honesty, capability, a good eye, creativity and having a business, but more of all admitting that even after doing it for decades upon decades, you are always still just starting out as there are always new things to learn.
JMHO

That's an interesting way to look at it that I hope people don't just glaze over... professional being more measure of how you handle yourself and your clients. Interesting.

 

[christopher walrath]

Put a D40 in anyone's hands they'll think they're a pro. Give them an sr-T101 without the batteries, a little dinky thyristor pop flash and a hand held light meter. Now what?

 

[table1349]

oooooooohhh.... oh heck, I don't know your real name... lol You cannot lump all wedding photographers into one pile, and in Canada, our pitchers all suck because we can't afford the big guns, and besides, we play hockey and none of our pitchers like to wear skates... but I know what you mean, respect your opinion, I just don't think that we fully agree on certain aspects of this.

S'ok, though, its all good!

Sorry JerryPH. I was a catcher for 11 years so pitchers are something I know a little about. Pitchers don't operate on a different plain than everybody else if you know what I mean. They operate on an entirely different planet. :lmao::lmao::lmao: A certain Mel Brooks movie about space comes to mind. Just having some fun.

 

[confused_in_the_darkroom]

I am by no means a pro. I shoot with camera's from the 80's and earlier because I cannot affort new camera's. I do however take this art very seriously and believe that people could be more constructive rather than destructive. The detriment served by negative criticism dwarfs any positive innovations made by the very small number of 'pros' out there. If everyone did cooperate the art would truly evolve, but certain elitists shoot down the aspiring youth. I WILL NOT BE SHOT DOWN!! I will contribute and encourage others to contribute and us lower levels of the photography world will not be shoved off of the stage because we are just as valid as the 'pros'

Elitist Dogs

 

[RMThompson]

Put a D40 in anyone's hands they'll think they're a pro. Give them an sr-T101 without the batteries, a little dinky thyristor pop flash and a hand held light meter. Now what?

Bow down to the master pro! :hail:

*sigh*

And put a dry plate camera in front of you. Now What?

Advancement of technology does not infer that those still using the previous generations tools is anymore or less qualified to be a professional.

Time and time again on this forum conversations and arguments have all lead to a single conclusion:

Equipment does not equal professional.

You might be a tinkerer, a gadgeter, and someone who downright loves his photographic tools... but all that matters is the END RESULT. I don't care how you got there if the photograph speaks to me.

Remember the Al Gore photograph that won a Pulitzer (or some major award)... it was taken with a 10 dollar plastic camera.

So, get off the high horse, and grab that friend with the D40 and show him the rule of thirds, teach him how to find emotion in his photography, and maybe even explain to him how all that technology in the D40 used to cost thousands of dollars; and show him what it does.

Only then can we all grow, as photographers... as artists... as people.

/soapbox

Ryan

 

[JodieO]

This may appear to you to be noble but what you are doing is charging others for your education.
If you are taking pictures in order to learn then you have to expect to pay for it.



This is where the root of the whole problem lies.
Most people quite clearly are confused about what they think they are doing.
A 'hobby' is a pursuit followed for amusement or pleasure. Nothing more.
Once you start 'making a few bucks' from it it ceases to be a hobby. It becomes a job (of sorts).
So if you are doing Photography as a hobby you should not try to make money from it - it's self-defeating.
If you want to make money from it then be honest with yourself and take the whole thing seriously and stop pretending it's a hobby.
Either you are good enough to charge for your work or you are not. To expect others to pay you money for an end product that may well be of poor quality is morally questionable.
And to seek to defend yourself with the excuse that you are still learning is laughable.
If you go to the Doctor with a headache and he amputates your leg, you would sue. And you wouldn't expect him to shrug it off with 'well, I'm still learning'.
If you got a plumber in to replace the washers in a tap and he flooded the house, his excuse that 'plumbing is just a hobby' would not really mollify you.
Photography is no different.
If you expect people to pay money for you to take pictures then they have a right to expect you to approach it with a degree of professionalism and produce work of reasonable and consistent quality. Pretending that your money-making exercise is just a hobby is nothing more than a conceit to make you feel better about the fact that it isn't.
Stop sitting on the fence and decide just what it is you are doing.

Exactly. A phenomenon that is rampant right now is "MWAC" - Mom With a Camera. I am a mom, I have a camera, but first and foremost, I am a businesswoman with a succesful business. You don't call a surgeon a Dad with a Knife, do you? WTHeck do people support this MWAC thing is beyond me....

The stereotypical MWAC has a husband who works, and she stays home with the kids. She dabbles in photography and decides to hang a shingle and be a business. But because she doesn't NEED to work, she only charges a few bucks to take pictures of other peoples' kids, usually on location or at the person's house. What the MWAC doesn't realize is that sure, it's a few bucks, but she's really not making a dime (she's actually charging less than walmart's a la carte prices). All the work she puts into PPing and money she puts out for camera bodies or equipment, she's not even thinking about that. If she did her expenses vs. income, she would see she's spending hours at minimum wage or less. What she is doing in actuality is dragging the industry down. She's making customers think that portraits should be cheap... so the MWAC will eventually go out of business because eventuallys he will get bored of not making money or her thrill of being a "photographer" passes. Now the customer doesn't have a photographer so comes to someone like me and balks at my $250 session fee and $75 8x10s and gets angry with me. Trust me, I get a lot of them. Nothing like getting a phone call "Does your $250 session fee include prints?" I say no, and they get mad and hang up.

Meanwhile, all I am doing is trying to make a living and keep my business afloat.... while the MWACs are dragging the industry down.

Disclaimer: Just because I say MWAC, I am not lumping all moms in there. Like I said, I am a mom and I have a camera, but again, is a plumber a Dad with a wrench?

When you are a professional photographer, I hate to break it to you but being a succesful photographer is more about your BUSINESS skills than it is anything else (with some rare exceptions of course). If you have the business skills, you will be succesful. If you have the business skills and back it up with amazing work, you will be VERY succesful.

ETA: To discuss the equipment of a professional photographer. Well, I hate to say this but perception is big in the eyes of some of your clients. Yes, as a pro photographer, you should be able to take any camera and make an amazing piece of art. ABSOLUTELY. However, depending upon your market, watch yourself. I just booked yet ANOTHER client with the same complaint yesterday. She called and said that she had booked a photog far in advance for her pregnancy images because she thougth they were a pro business with a great website. She then calls up to confirm final situation and realizes that that photog doesn't have a studio. She was upset and called me and wanted to make sure I had a studio. I understand where she is coming from. She wanted the professionalism and privacy of a real studio where she could do semi-nude images in a professional way. She felt it unprofessional to do them at her home... not that they couldn't be professional, but it was her perception. Many of my well-known clients don't want a photog at their house - they want privacy and no one invading their personal home.... so they have appreciated that I have a studio... MANY comment on my equipment/camera and are reassured of my professionalism just by seeing my website, equipment, and studio combined.

Again, not that it makes your images unprofessional if you don't have the equipment, etc. to back that image up but depending on your market, they may be judging you based on it.... and while you can totally prove them wrong with your images, heck, I like the reassurance they get and the pleasure they get from my images.... It's how *I* like to work, but I know it isn't the same for everyone, and that is okay.

Some clients just like to be reassured that they are making the right decision the moment they see you... yes, that doesn't mean much of anything, but maybe it does to them? It's the same thing as when you walk into a place to buy a high ticket item, you want to see high ticket stuff around you, you want to be pampered, you want the high ticket experience. It's perception.

Another little disclaimer: I see how some people might not care to make money at this... okay, I can accept that... but personally, I don't see doing ANY work without making money at it... Any time spent away from my children or away from my love of hiking and horseback riding, needs to be WELL worth it to me. I put a price on my time. Taking photos of nature and stuff for fun is one thing, I would do that for free, but once you add customers/clients into it, it becomes business and work. Sometimes it is fun work, but it *IS* work, and I won't work for free. In fact, I price my time quite high hourly.

 

[Lyncca]

By the way, I'm not a flipping mom with a camera! I make my own frigging money in a highend aviation consulting company! I don't even have a kid!

 

[JodieO]

By the way, I'm not a flipping mom with a camera! I make my own frigging money in a highend aviation consulting company! I don't even have a kid!

I don't think anyone was calling you a MWAC. What did I miss? I only spoke the above from personal experience. :meh:

 

[Lyncca]

The part you quoted was directed at me.