First DSLR

[NedM]

I would suggest the T3i, as it was my first DSLR, and still is.

 

[Centropolis]

I am a Nikon guy so I don't know enough about Canon products to comment. This is not to say you shouldn't consider Canon DSLRs. I think it's best to pick one up in a store to compare how they feel in your hands.

As for Nikon products, I personally would go for a D3xxx instead of a D5xxx to spend even less on a beginner DSLR. If you're planning to grow with this, a used D7000 body would be my pick. If you're totally going to stay with a beginner DSLR to get your feet wet as you don't know if you're going to like this hobby, I would even look for D3100.

 

[KmH]

Nikon is better

Based on...?


And define "better"

Based on camera performance. Overall better, broader, more usable - ISO, dynamic range, color depth, better ergonomics.
Some years back Canon cameras had better performing image sensors than Nikon camera had.

Except the entry-level compact Nikon's, all other Nikon DSLR cameras have a built-in intervalometer, none of Canon's cameras do.

All of Nikon's cameras have color aware metering, only some of Canon's cameras do (60D and up).

Nikon has not appreciably changed their lens mount since 1959, so most Nikon legacy lens made since then will mount on just about any Nikon SLR/DSLR with out the need for an adapter.
In the same time period Canon has changed their lens mount several times - from the R-mount in use in 1959, to the FL-mount (4/64), to the FD-mount (3/71), to the EF mount ('87) and adding the EF-S mount for crop sensor Canon cameras ('03).
Canon EF-S lenses cannot be mounted on Canon EF camera bodies.

 

[lennon33x]

Nikon is better

Based on...?


And define "better"

Based on camera performance. Overall better, broader, more usable - ISO, dynamic range, color depth, better ergonomics.
Some years back Canon cameras had better performing image sensors than Nikon camera had.

Except the entry-level compact Nikon's, all other Nikon DSLR cameras have a built-in intervalometer, none of Canon's cameras do.

All of Nikon's cameras have color aware metering, only some of Canon's cameras do (60D and up).

Nikon has not appreciably changed their lens mount since 1959, so most Nikon legacy lens made since then will mount on just about any Nikon SLR/DSLR with out the need for an adapter.
In the same time period Canon has changed their lens mount several times - from the R-mount in use in 1959, to the FL-mount (4/64), to the FD-mount (3/71), to the EF mount ('87) and adding the EF-S mount for crop sensor Canon cameras ('03).
Canon EF-S lenses cannot be mounted on Canon EF camera bodies.

Ergonomics, I'll have to respectfully disagree. I have a 5D, and love the wheel. My hands are giant, and I've shot with my step-dad's Nikon D90, and the wheels at the thumb and the front are quite awkward.

And for gear heads, who focus solely on obtaining the absolute best quality, then Nikon may be better.

I will give you this though; Nikon's color depth and dynamic range are vastly better than Canon's. However, if client's are printing out their pictures from Walmart vs. a real photo lab, it doesn't really matter.

But for most people, who use photography for what it is, buying portraits or digital images to put on Facebook. Those people, who purchase from even the "worst" photographers, still can't tell the difference, and can often accept blurry images because SS was too slow.

It's all subjective in the end I guess.

 

[JerryLove]

Based on camera performance. Overall better, broader, more usable - ISO, dynamic range, color depth, better ergonomics.
Some years back Canon cameras had better performing image sensors than Nikon camera had.

Except the entry-level compact Nikon's, all other Nikon DSLR cameras have a built-in intervalometer, none of Canon's cameras do.

All of Nikon's cameras have color aware metering, only some of Canon's cameras do (60D and up).

OTOH: Most Canons have "C" modes on their control dials. Each of these is a complete memory for everything about the camera. Every time you select that position, everything about the camera is recalled from when you saved it!

Nikons, except for the D7000 and D600, have no easily recalled total-camera-state recall functions. Every time you want to shoot anything different on a Nikon, you have to reset many different things in many different menus.

Nikon's DOF button is pretty much window dressing at this point, as I understand.

Nikon has not appreciably changed their lens mount since 1959, so most Nikon legacy lens made since then will mount on just about any Nikon SLR/DSLR with out the need for an adapter.

Many electronic camera bodies cannot meter without a CPU enabled lens, the aperture of G designated lenses cannot be controlled without an electronic camera body, and non-AI lenses (manufactured prior to 1977) can cause mechanical damage to later model bodies unless they are modified to meet the AI specification.

The problem with Nikon's compatibility is that today its lenses still use more primitive mechanical communication with the camera for some functions that date back to the 1950s, making some functions like depth of field preview nowhere near as smooth as it is on Canon.

In the same time period Canon has changed their lens mount several times - from the R-mount in use in 1959, to the FL-mount (4/64), to the FD-mount (3/71), to the EF mount ('87) and adding the EF-S mount for crop sensor Canon cameras ('03).
Canon EF-S lenses cannot be mounted on Canon EF camera bodies.

That last one isn't really fair is it? You cannot use a Nikon DX lens on an FX camera (well, perhaps you *can*, but you won't get the results most people would want). All EF-S does is prevent you from accidenally (or intentionally) putting an APS-C lens on a full-frame camera that it wouldn't work on anyway.

And maybe, coming from the IT world, I have a different definition of "sticking with", but 25 years sounds like a lot of time to use a single mount. Because Canon wiped the slate clean and created a completely new electronic lens mount system for autofocus in 1987, every camera and lens Canon has made from 1987 through today is completely 100% compatible with everything else made since 1987. Every Canon EF lens works perfectly with every Canon EOS 35mm or digital camera ever made. Their oldest EF lenses work perfectly on the newest EOS digital cameras, and the newest EF and Image Stabilization lenses work perfectly on the very first EOS650 camera from 1987.

I'm not saying Canons are better than Nikons. Heaven knows, I don't know (I suspect, as many have stated, they are merely both different compromises of the ideal); but I do think that some of your criticisms above are ill-founded and cherry-picked.

 

[lennon33x]

OTOH: Most Canons have "C" modes on their control dials. Each of these is a complete memory for everything about the camera. Every time you select that position, everything about the camera is recalled from when you saved it! Nikons, except for the D7000 and D600, have no easily recalled total-camera-state recall functions. Every time you want to shoot anything different on a Nikon, you have to reset many different things in many different menus. Nikon's DOF button is pretty much window dressing at this point, as I understand. Many electronic camera bodies cannot meter without a CPU enabled lens, the aperture of G designated lenses cannot be controlled without an electronic camera body, and non-AI lenses (manufactured prior to 1977) can cause mechanical damage to later model bodies unless they are modified to meet the AI specification. The problem with Nikon's compatibility is that today its lenses still use more primitive mechanical communication with the camera for some functions that date back to the 1950s, making some functions like depth of field preview nowhere near as smooth as it is on Canon. That last one isn't really fair is it? You cannot use a Nikon DX lens on an FX camera (well, perhaps you *can*, but you won't get the results most people would want). All EF-S does is prevent you from accidenally (or intentionally) putting an APS-C lens on a full-frame camera that it wouldn't work on anyway. And maybe, coming from the IT world, I have a different definition of "sticking with", but 25 years sounds like a lot of time to use a single mount. Because Canon wiped the slate clean and created a completely new electronic lens mount system for autofocus in 1987, every camera and lens Canon has made from 1987 through today is completely 100% compatible with everything else made since 1987. Every Canon EF lens works perfectly with every Canon EOS 35mm or digital camera ever made. Their oldest EF lenses work perfectly on the newest EOS digital cameras, and the newest EF and Image Stabilization lenses work perfectly on the very first EOS650 camera from 1987. I'm not saying Canons are better than Nikons. Heaven knows, I don't know (I suspect, as many have stated, they are merely both different compromises of the ideal); but I do think that some of your criticisms above are ill-founded and cherry-picked.

Note: you quoted me, but it was KMH that posted the response.

That being said, I agree with you about cherry picking. My buddy has a Nikon D800. He showed me that it shot at 36 mp. At first I was impressed and then went, holy crap, I would need to spend $200 in hard drives just to store all of that media.

The beauty of having options is just that - being able to choose what you want, within your budget. The important thing to find is something that works well with you and your setup. Case in point, I upgraded from a T3 to a 5D. I went used to save money and it still gives me the upgrades I wanted at a reasonable cost.

The Nikon vs. Canon debate will always go on. But finding what works well for every person is the key

 

[robbins.photo]

OTOH: Most Canons have "C" modes on their control dials. Each of these is a complete memory for everything about the camera. Every time you select that position, everything about the camera is recalled from when you saved it!

Not a feature I've every really found to be all that valauble to me personally. I use a D5100 and I get along just fine without it, since the only thing I really want to adjust from one shot to another is my aperture, ISO and shutter speed and I can do all that easily enough without having them pre-programmed into a switch on the selector, without accessing any menus - I press a button, move the command wheel and in a second or possibly two at most I'm ready to shoot.

Nikons, except for the D7000 and D600, have no easily recalled total-camera-state recall functions. Every time you want to shoot anything different on a Nikon, you have to reset many different things in many different menus.

Any time you want to shoot something "different"? Umm.. no, not even close. I don't have to access my menus to reset a thing. The only reason I might is if I were to be shooting JPG mode, but even then only if I wanted to make adjustments to how the camera processes the JPG, which I really don't. I can deal with any of that easily enough in post.

Nikon's DOF button is pretty much window dressing at this point, as I understand.

I'd say your understanding there leaves a bit to be desired. I don't use it myself but I know people who do and love it.

And maybe, coming from the IT world, I have a different definition of "sticking with", but 25 years sounds like a lot of time to use a single mount. Because Canon wiped the slate clean and created a completely new electronic lens mount system for autofocus in 1987, every camera and lens Canon has made from 1987 through today is completely 100% compatible with everything else made since 1987. Every Canon EF lens works perfectly with every Canon EOS 35mm or digital camera ever made. Their oldest EF lenses work perfectly on the newest EOS digital cameras, and the newest EF and Image Stabilization lenses work perfectly on the very first EOS650 camera from 1987.

I'm not saying Canons are better than Nikons. Heaven knows, I don't know (I suspect, as many have stated, they are merely both different compromises of the ideal); but I do think that some of your criticisms above are ill-founded and cherry-picked.

Nothing ill-founded or cherry picked to state the fact that my D5100 is an antiquated camera. It was built eons ago by camera standards, and it was never considered a top of the line unit by Nikon even when it was built brand new, it's basically just one step above entry level. And yet to match it's dynamic range if I were to buy a Canon I'd have to get a 5D Mark II or III, Not even the brand spanking new 70d can match my old D5100 for dynamic range and just barely matches it for overall image quality because of it's much higher MP sensor.

Nothing wrong with Canon persee, but the simple truth is that almost any time you compare a Nikon that is in approximately the same price category to a similar Canon the Nikon will have the better still image quality and better dynamic range.

The thing to keep in mind though is that for some folks that is not the most important consideration when buying a camera, and as such I don't fault them for deciding to go with Canon. If they find the Canon's image quality acceptable and are more interested in other features that a Canon offers them then great, maybe Canon is the best choice for them personally. For me I my primary concern was image quality, I wanted the best I could afford, so for me the Nikon made more sense.

But I understand and appreciate the fact that the most important feature in a camera for me is not necessarily the same as it is for everyone else. There are tons and tons of factors that might influence the overall decision as to which camera someone might ultimately choose. For me the important thing is that a person ends up with a camera that fits their needs the best, not which manufacturer's logo happens to be stamped on the casing.

YMMV I guess.

 

[JerryLove]

reavesce - Sorry for the mis-attribution.

robbins.photo - Which re-enforces my point that there isn't a single "better" one. If there were: the vast majority of professional photographers would likely use it. I believe, in the SLR market, Canon controlled 44.5 percent of the market, followed by Nikon with 29.8 percent.

 

[robbins.photo]

reavesce - Sorry for the mis-attribution.

robbins.photo - Which re-enforces my point that there isn't a single "better" one. If there were: the vast majority of professional photographers would likely use it. I believe, in the SLR market, Canon controlled 44.5 percent of the market, followed by Nikon with 29.8 percent.

I won't bother to double check the numbers on market share, because they are really irrelevant to the question at hand. It just really doesn't address the OP's original question. So why don't we just drop the whole Nikon vrs Canon silliness and go back to trying to figure out what sort of features the OP really needs so that we can make a proper recommendation?

 

[robbins.photo]

Ok, so back on track here, addressing this to the OP (Original Poster for those of you not to hip on all this snazzy internet lingo) - you mentioned some of the types of photography you'd be doing, of the different types of shots you'd be taking do you have some idea which ones you'd most likely be taking the most? Also, of the two camera features, better image quality or faster shooting speed, which would you consider the most important to you?

Oh, and almost forgot a couple of other important considerations, will you be wanting to purchase everything new or do you feel comfortable purchasing used, and of course the natural follow up will you most likely be purchasing online or locally?

 

[lennon33x]

The thing to keep in mind though is that for some folks that is not the most important consideration when buying a camera, and as such I don't fault them for deciding to go with Canon. If they find the Canon's image quality acceptable and are more interested in other features that a Canon offers them then great, maybe Canon is the best choice for them personally. For me I my primary concern was image quality, I wanted the best I could afford, so for me the Nikon made more sense.

When I made the leap into Canon, I did it from simply two reasons: 1.) I could operate a Canon much easier than a Nikon (from an ergonomic standpoint) and 2.) I had the option of picking up a super great package deal with a T3 and two lenses at Sam's Club. Granted, in retrospect this is obviously ill-advised. I bought all sorts of Canon gear and didn't realize what it all meant. Because I had Canon gear, and subsequently learned the Canon system, I never switched to Nikon.

If I had to do it all over again, I may have just gone with Nikon. I can still get the images and quality I want, and the only people that ever really see my pictures are on social media and family, and they can't tell the difference like I can. But I'm also my own worst critic.

 

[lennon33x]

Ok, so back on track here, addressing this to the OP (Original Poster for those of you not to hip on all this snazzy internet lingo) - you mentioned some of the types of photography you'd be doing, of the different types of shots you'd be taking do you have some idea which ones you'd most likely be taking the most? Also, of the two camera features, better image quality or faster shooting speed, which would you consider the most important to you?

Oh, and almost forgot a couple of other important considerations, will you be wanting to purchase everything new or do you feel comfortable purchasing used, and of course the natural follow up will you most likely be purchasing online or locally?

I'm wondering what the OP means by outside "still shots"?

 

[Derrel]

Nikon is better

Based on...?


And define "better"

Based on camera performance. Overall better, broader, more usable - ISO, dynamic range, color depth, better ergonomics.
Some years back Canon cameras had better performing image sensors than Nikon camera had.

Except the entry-level compact Nikon's, all other Nikon DSLR cameras have a built-in intervalometer, none of Canon's cameras do.

All of Nikon's cameras have color aware metering, only some of Canon's cameras do (60D and up).

Nikon has not appreciably changed their lens mount since 1959, so most Nikon legacy lens made since then will mount on just about any Nikon SLR/DSLR with out the need for an adapter.
In the same time period Canon has changed their lens mount several times - from the R-mount in use in 1959, to the FL-mount (4/64), to the FD-mount (3/71), to the EF mount ('87) and adding the EF-S mount for crop sensor Canon cameras ('03).
Canon EF-S lenses cannot be mounted on Canon EF camera bodies.

Whoa, whoa, whoa....easy on all the facts there Keith!!! Canon shooters hate to hear this kinda' stuff...that's why they try and throw DxO Mark's sensor testing results into disrepute every chance they get. MAYBE some day, Canon will manage to crack the top 20 with a camera at DxO Mark... DxOMark by DxO Labs - DxOMark

 

[lennon33x]

Based on...?


And define "better"

Based on camera performance. Overall better, broader, more usable - ISO, dynamic range, color depth, better ergonomics.
Some years back Canon cameras had better performing image sensors than Nikon camera had.

Except the entry-level compact Nikon's, all other Nikon DSLR cameras have a built-in intervalometer, none of Canon's cameras do.

All of Nikon's cameras have color aware metering, only some of Canon's cameras do (60D and up).

Nikon has not appreciably changed their lens mount since 1959, so most Nikon legacy lens made since then will mount on just about any Nikon SLR/DSLR with out the need for an adapter.
In the same time period Canon has changed their lens mount several times - from the R-mount in use in 1959, to the FL-mount (4/64), to the FD-mount (3/71), to the EF mount ('87) and adding the EF-S mount for crop sensor Canon cameras ('03).
Canon EF-S lenses cannot be mounted on Canon EF camera bodies.

Whoa, whoa, whoa....easy on all the facts there Keith!!! Canon shooters hate to hear this kinda' stuff...that's why they try and throw DxO Mark's sensor testing results into disrepute every chance they get. MAYBE some day, Canon will manage to crack the top 20 with a camera at DxO Mark... DxOMark by DxO Labs - DxOMark

Derrel...

The truth makes me sad...


*single tear*

 

[JerryLove]

So why don't we just drop the whole Nikon vrs Canon silliness and go back to trying to figure out what sort of features the OP really needs so that we can make a proper recommendation?

Sounds terrific. Is it possible?

Whoa, whoa, whoa....easy on all the facts there Keith!!! Canon shooters hate to hear this kinda' stuff...that's why they try and throw DxO Mark's sensor testing results into disrepute every chance they get. MAYBE some day, Canon will manage to crack the top 20 with a camera at DxO Mark... DxOMark by DxO Labs - DxOMark

I don't really have a feel for the mod-involvement level on TPF yet; but I would generally categorize this as flame-baiting.

Maybe I've chosen the wrong forum to study the hobby from. At least I can leave this thread (as I have nothing useful to contribute to the OP that wouldn't boil down to fact-correcting others who are also off-topic).