flash and shutter speed override ?

[dannylightning]

when the camera flash is being used I cant get a shutter speed faster than 1/200, that is the fastest the camera will let me go when the on camera flash is being used.

for what I am trying to achieve I need a faster shutter speed and I need a flash. my on camera flash is turned down all the way and it needs to trigger the speed light to flash.

I found a cool video where you set your shutter speed to a point where you take a pic and you get a pure black image. than you use a speed light on the object you want to shoot and you get a pic of that image and a pure black background even in day light.

I wanted to try that out but I need a shutter speed to be much faster but the camera will not let me, any way to change that so it will let me have a faster shutter speed when a flash is being used.

 

[CameraClicker]

In Canon speak, High Speed Synch, is what you are looking for. I don't know the Nikon name. Sync speed is the fastest shutter speed at which the curtains are fully open. After that, High Speed Sync can fire the flash multiple times to light the scene while the curtains are exposing different areas of the sensor.

Useful for fill, not useful for stopping motion. You get blur due to the multiple flash firing. To fire multiple times, the flash does not fire at maximum power.

Not all flash and camera bodies support High Speed Sync.

 

[dannylightning]

Thanks. I just tried to look it up but I found a different one than I originally saw, its saying to use a small aperture if you have a sink speed around 1/250

so I guess my sink speed wont go past 1/200 I was hoping there was some kind of setting where I could over ride that. but maybe I can make it work with a smaller aperture. if its nice out tomorrow Ill probably give it a try. indoors there is probably to much stuff for the flash to bounce off of for it to work.

 

[beachrat]

Nikon calls it "FP Sync",but not all bodies or flashes support it and I'm pretty sure the D5300 doesn't.
If you go into the menus flash sync speed (e1 I think),"Auto FP" will be an option if the camera supports it.
I use lights a lot,and it's one of the reason I kept my D70 and use it often. It syncs at any speed with any strobe which is a really cool feature.

 

[snowbear]

Some cameras have different synch speed - the D40 is 1/400; older film bodies might only be 1/60.
If you are using something like a wall as a background, move the subject away from it.

 

[KmH]

1/200 is your camera's flash x-sync speed.
That is the fastest shutter speed that still has both shutter curtains open during an exposure.
At faster shutter speeds one or both shutter curtains form a slit that blocks part of the image sensor and a flash unit has to fire several times during the exposure .
The faster the shutter speed, the narrower the slit, and the more times during the exposure the flash unit has to fire.
Nikon calls that flash unit mode Auto-FP flash sync. (FP= focal plane).
None of the D3XXX or D5XXX series have Auto-FP sync and the D5300 reference manual does not have an Index to aid looking things up in the manual.
Nikons SB-600 and up are Auto-FP sync capable.

A speedlight takes at least 2 seconds to recycle from a full power flash so in Auto-FP flash sync mode the flash unit has to fire at well less than full power for each of those flashes.
The more times the flash has to fire the less power each flash has to be because the flash unit has no time to recycle back to full power.

There is more.
The duration of a full power flash used at 1/200 is about 1/1000 of a second so the flash of light can substitute for the motion stopping function of shutter speed, and the shorter flash duration accommodates Auito-FP sync's short flash duration needed to fire several times during an exposure.
At less than full power the duration of the flash of light gets even shorter.
The situation where you use shutter speed to make the background dark or black is called 'dragging the shutter'.

Page H-17 of the Nikon SB-700 flash unit's user manual shows
Flash Duration (approx.):
1/1042 sec. at M1/1 (full) output
1/1136 sec. at M1/2 output
1/2857 sec. at M1/4 output
1/5714 sec. at M1/8 output
1/10000 sec. at M1/16 output
1/18182 sec. at M1/32 output
1/25000 sec. at M1/64 output
1/40000 sec. at M1/128 output

 

[dannylightning]

thanks for all the good info...

 

[WayneF]

when the camera flash is being used I cant get a shutter speed faster than 1/200, that is the fastest the camera will let me go when the on camera flash is being used.

for what I am trying to achieve I need a faster shutter speed and I need a flash. my on camera flash is turned down all the way and it needs to trigger the speed light to flash.

I found a cool video where you set your shutter speed to a point where you take a pic and you get a pure black image. than you use a speed light on the object you want to shoot and you get a pic of that image and a pure black background even in day light.

I wanted to try that out but I need a shutter speed to be much faster but the camera will not let me, any way to change that so it will let me have a faster shutter speed when a flash is being used.

Your maximum sync speed is 1/200 second. That is because it is a focal plane shutter, and it is not fully open at any faster shutter speed. Just how it is, all focal plane shutters are in this same ballpark, maybe 1/180 second or a few 1/250 second, but nothing dramatically different. Four Flash Photography Basics we must know - Maximum Shutter Sync Speed

Higher end Nikon models (D300 and D7000 and up) have Auto FP mode, which is HSS flash, and with a compatible HSS flash, they can use any fast shutter speed with flash. Of course, it is not actually flash, it is continuous HSS mode, something radically different with obvious downsides - It is certainly no longer speedlight..

But... speedlights are called speedlight because at lower power levels, they can be tremendously fast, much faster than any shutter speed. Underexpose the ambient at least two stops, and be near enough so that low flash power works (say 1/16 power or less), and it will stop your motion. This is the way that high speed flash photography is done.

Re: your black background. Should not be much problem (except in sunight). 1/200 second at stopped down aperture like say f/8, and at low ISO, will make most any indoor scene black. Try this shot without flash to see the black, it will be there. This will require camera mode M (manual) to set those settings, but the TTL flash is still fully automatic flash in any camera mode.

Saying again, 1/200 second f/8 at ISO 100 will be black indoors, may even be overkill. It is all you need for this goal (unless the flash lights the background you don't want to see - try a flash angle that does not light the background).

So...just turn Auto ISO off. The goal of Auto ISO is that it will not be black.

 

[dannylightning]

no luck... just did some test with my mom, even went up to around f/15 and no luck.. was not worried about a good looking photo or proper flash placement on the subject, I was worried about the background being black and it does not seem to work. the background would not go black. this is a pretty big room but maybe not big enough.

the flash seems to have a 180o flash radius so, its hard to not illuminate the background or so it seems.

 

[tirediron]

1. Start by selecting the correct aperture (and base ISO). Select an aperture which, when you shoot with ambient light at sync speed, will produce a fully black background.

2. Move your lights in closer to the model and lower their output accordingly. Remember the inverse square law. Just 'for instance' in the above image, if it were me shooting, my lights would likely be 2-3' from the subject.

3. Feather/flag your lights, that is, do not point them directly at the background, but to one side or the other and if necessary add flags to the backgroudn side of the light to minimize spill.

 

[dannylightning]

I did number 1, got a completely black image without the flash being on.

number 2 I dont know that law, ill look it up.. the flash was pointed at her and not pointed at the background. this was only with one speed light, I think I would like to get a second one If I can get the hang of using these things,

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seems like the speedlight placement is very critical to get proper lighting on the person once you get them closer to the person.

I just gave it another try and I got the background to almost black. but if she took one step forward or one step back it really change the way the light hit her face to the point of being descent to not really usable.

maybe speed lights are not that idea for this kind of thing. I did see people were using a umbrella and bouncing the speed light off of the inside of the umbrella when doing this.

here is a photo showing what happened when she took one step back. if she had stepped forward it might have been better. who knows, seems like a big pain with these speed lights, than again I dont know what I am doing either lol

 

[tirediron]

Speedlights work just fine for this sort of work, you just need to get it 'dialed in'. You're right, light placement is absolutely critical and moving the light or the subject just a few inches can make a big difference. The colour of your background will have some effect as well; naturally it's MUCH easier to acheive this on a black wall then it is on a white.

This image is lit with a single speedlight in a normally illumanted living-room. The subject is sitting in a brown, leather arm-chair about 4' in front of a light green wall. The speedlight is in a 20" gridded beauty dish above and image left, about 3' from the subject. Absolutely no processing was applied to the background:

 

[Braineack]

I took this picture at 1/4000sec, f/4, and iso 160. Without the flash it would have been a completely black picture.

turn flash to manual and put it at full power.

My information about it here: Is there a way to break the sync speed? | Photography Forum


But this is not what you really need to solve your delimma. Understanding the reverse square law is what you need.

move the flash closer to the subject. and subject further from bg.

While I changed my fill light, I took these two shots from the same exact spot.


New Backdrop Selfie by The Braineack, on Flickr


New Backdrop Selfie by The Braineack, on Flickr


The only real difference here was in the second I added a light to light-up the background. They have identical exposure settings and the main key light is at the exact same power between them (1/160s, f/11, iso160). I'm only standing about 3-4' from the bg, im only using enough light to light myself up and nothing else.

 

[WayneF]

I did number 1, got a completely black image without the flash being on.

number 2 I dont know the law at all, ill look it up.. the flash was pointed at her and not pointed at the background. this was only with one speed light but I think I would like to get a second one, I could try to move the flash closer to her.

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seems like the speed light placement is very critical to get proper lighting on the person once you get them closer to the person.

I just gave it another try and I got the background to almost black. but if she took one step forward or one step back it really change the way the light hit her face to the point of being descent to not really usable.

maybe speed lights are not that idea for this kind of thing. I did see people were using a umbrella and bouncing the speed light off of the inside of the umbrella when doing this.

The low ISO and 1/200 second shutter will eliminate your room ambient light (will be black without the flash). And no ambient issue is visible.

Your problem now is the inverse square law. Four Flash Photography Basics we must know - Inverse Square Law

This just means that the flash illumination falls off FAST with distance from the flash. NOT LIKE SUNLIGHT, which is same at the distant mountain.

So it means you put the flash closer to the subject, to make the background farther.

Your example looks like flash is about 6 feet from subject, and maybe 12 feet from far wall at right.

So that is 2x distance to the wall, so the flash will be down 2 stops. 2 stops is dark, but not black however.

If the subject moved closer to flash, so flash were say 3 feet from subject, and subject 9 feet from wall (flash still 12 feet from wall), that is 4x, and down 4 stops, much darker wall.

3 feet is too close for the camera (perspective), so flash has to come off of the camera. But 3 feet is just about right for a large white reflected umbrella.

But this would be easier with a dark background, or a more distant background in larger room. Or outdoors at night (distant black background).

 

[dannylightning]

1/200 is the fastest shutter speed I can get on my camera when using a flash... I had my ISO at 100 and I was round f/13 or so If I made the aperture any wider, no more black background.

If I got some reflective umbrellas would that help. I think those are pretty inexpensive. I am kind of liking the whole speed light Idea since they are small, lightweight and highly portable. I was thinking of getting some studio strobes but If I can make it work with these that woud be great. the speedlight I have was only 50 bucks and works quite well so I would not mind buying another one


yes the speed light was in the range of distance Wayne, I moved them on about 2 feet from the subject on the second set of pics which seemed to work better for getting a black background but the subject was not lit as well so I would really need to move her around and snap pics till it lit her up well which is what really seems like a pain. the flash from my camera was not bright enough to light the subject, just bright enough to trigger the speed light. since my camera was pointed directly at the background I did not want that to effect the photo