For all practical purposes, is Kodak dead for the photographic community?

[John27]

The Leica M9, considered one of the best digital cameras on the market, uses a custom full-frame Kodak sensor. They are definitely relevant in the digital world, but can't seem to succeed in it! Someone else will make the Leica sensor when the patents get bought up I assume.

The next Leica M has moved on

New Leica M uses CMOSIS 24 MP CMOS Image Sensor

I believe Kodak made the first Digital camera..... often the innovators are the worst at business.

They sort of did. They modified a Nikon body and it had a cable running down to this big thing you hung off of your shoulder. Marketed for photojournalists with deep pockets. The first real-world digital camera though goes to Nikon. As I understand it, DSLRs existed before any digital point and shoot cameras (with the Nikon D1 being the first)

At least that's how I understand it.. I could be wrong.

Interesting that Leica has dropped the Kodak sensor. I think you hit it though, it's not that their products are no good, it's the business that's no good.

 

[usayit]

They sort of did. They modified a Nikon body and it had a cable running down to this big thing you hung off of your shoulder. Marketed for photojournalists with deep pockets. The first real-world digital camera though goes to Nikon. As I understand it, DSLRs existed before any digital point and shoot cameras (with the Nikon D1 being the first)

I'm referring to far before that... 70s

 

[Derrel]

I would credit the first "real-world digital camera" to SONY.

 

[rexbobcat]

I would credit the first "real-world digital camera" to SONY.

Are you referring to a practical consumer-friendly digital camera?

 

[Derrel]

I would credit the first "real-world digital camera" to SONY.

Do you mean a practical consumer-friendly digital camera?

I mean an actual camera "model"; one that actually was manufactured, distributed, and which SOLD enough units to actually have been considered a "real-world" offering, as opposed to a 1- to 5-off "prototype" or proof-of-concept camera that was so rare and expensive that it had its own "team of handlers" who took it around to demo it...

 

[usayit]

guys... its not a pissing contest over who is More right...

I mentioned it as a reference to Kodak's innovation versus their lack of business... Often the proof of concept is often the first significant and often most difficult step from the view point of technology. An entity assembled for the discovery and development of emerging technologies versus one that is geared towards the productizing technologies are often two very different business models.

Most of the successful businesses of today didnt invent what they sell.... or unlike Kodak simply out innovated the originator. Never the less... many of thee success stories would be impossible without another group doing the hard research.

 

[Derrel]

It's pretty sad to see how BADLY Kodak failed, over,and over,and over, and over,and over,and over,and over!!! Repeated, incredibly stupid, bone-headed decisions, on technology after technology. The idea that THEY could "create entire markets", out of thin air, and then serve those markets with products they themselves created to serve the needs of markets they "invented"....just simply incredibly prideful, to the point of stupidity. When the bankruptcy was first in the courts, there were some great articles written by Ctein, Eamon Hickey, and multiple other people who had first-hand experience with Kodak's attempts to create "new markets" with the idea that, because of "who they were", that they, Kodak, could dictate all sorts of terms for these alleged markets...

At one time Kodak was a simply HUGE company. But it was progressively trimmed, and trimmed, and trimmed, and trimmed some more, as each time the executives running the company failed to adapt to almost every single challenge and every new market reality. A great example was the way Kodak blew off FujiFilm as little more than a mosquito; inside of a decade, and Fuji began to shake Kodak down for its lunch money; by the time a full decade had passed, Fuji was getting the lunch money AND beating Kodak up after school...move forward a few years, and Kodak got pushed out of many develop and printing machine contracts.

Kodak's entry into the instant film camera and instant film market?? Ooopsie!!!! that was a legal setback that cost them millions. The failure to predict, or respond to, digital imaging??? A sad, tragic failure. Kind of like a buggywhip maker, failing to take the new horseless carriage fad seriously. And on, and on, and on. Kodak's litany of failures and flops and huge financial losses will be fodder for Harvard MBA students for decades.

 

[terri]

Kodak has been a shell of its once regal presence for some time now. Quality products, wonderful history, and crappy management. I shall miss the irreplaceable things, like HIE. However, it's not too hard to get identical darkroom chemicals.

Blah. They depress me. :meh: Idiots.

 

[Ilovemycam]

It's pretty sad to see how BADLY Kodak failed, over,and over,and over, and over,and over,and over,and over!!! Repeated, incredibly stupid, bone-headed decisions, on technology after technology. The idea that THEY could "create entire markets", out of thin air, and then serve those markets with products they themselves created to serve the needs of markets they "invented"....just simply incredibly prideful, to the point of stupidity. When the bankruptcy was first in the courts, there were some great articles written by Ctein, Eamon Hickey, and multiple other people who had first-hand experience with Kodak's attempts to create "new markets" with the idea that, because of "who they were", that they, Kodak, could dictate all sorts of terms for these alleged markets...

At one time Kodak was a simply HUGE company. But it was progressively trimmed, and trimmed, and trimmed, and trimmed some more, as each time the executives running the company failed to adapt to almost every single challenge and every new market reality. A great example was the way Kodak blew off FujiFilm as little more than a mosquito; inside of a decade, and Fuji began to shake Kodak down for its lunch money; by the time a full decade had passed, Fuji was getting the lunch money AND beating Kodak up after school...move forward a few years, and Kodak got pushed out of many develop and printing machine contracts.

Kodak's entry into the instant film camera and instant film market?? Ooopsie!!!! that was a legal setback that cost them millions. The failure to predict, or respond to, digital imaging??? A sad, tragic failure. Kind of like a buggywhip maker, failing to take the new horseless carriage fad seriously. And on, and on, and on. Kodak's litany of failures and flops and huge financial losses will be fodder for Harvard MBA students for decades.

Do you think that this downfall is based on a constant turnover of the mangement? New young blood comes on board and the hell with the old school methods type of thing? Or was it something else?

 

[Farmclicker]

Interesting thread...

Just as a passing interest, my wife's family actually gave Eastman Kodiak its initial start in cameras in the dry plating business at about the turn of the century. That family was always involved in camera equipment development, but more as a hobby. What they are known for is actually producing steam powered cars called the Stanley Steamers and won a land speed record in 1906 by going 127 mph in a 12 hp car! If you go to their museum in Kingfield Maine there is an impressive collection of early camera equipment, for those interested in that stuff.

I have had the pleasure of working at the Eastman Kodiac plant in Peabody, MA in 1995. We built some stainless steel tanks for them and had to install them...an interesting place to say the least. I am saddened by their demise, but society does not benefit by stagnant, ill managed companies.

 

[BrianV]

"Ancient History", Nikon had the "E series" digital cameras out before the D1. The E-1, E2, and E3- worked with Fuji on them. I have an E3, circa 1997.

Kodak brought out the DCS200 in 1992, a Nikon N8008s with a 1.6MPixel digital back and internal SCSI notebook drive. Mine still works, bought it new for $12,400.

Truesense is the old Kodak sensor Division. They make the KAF-18500 in the in-production Leica M-E and M Monochrom. They also just introduced a 4/3 format CMOS detector with global electronic shutter, available in color and monochrome. I'll have to do a comparison of the M Monochrom and the DCS200, which is also monochrome.

 

[The_Traveler]

The failure to predict, or respond to, digital imaging??? A sad, tragic failure. Kind of like a buggywhip maker, failing to take the new horseless carriage fad seriously.

My oldest son was the architect for the back end of Kodak Gallery (their online storage site) and he eventually left out of frustration. They had zero ideas about how to monetize digital imaging and they were prepared to do amazingly crazy - and stupid - things, like for example, to save space on their storage, they were preparing to go through and downsize all of the large files - without telling the users.

 

[BrianV]

It's just sad. In the 1980s my work was on NDA with their Digital Science Division. We were making and flying the first digital Infrared sensors, Mid-wave and Long-wave, in 1982. We were interested in their short-wave IR and visible technology, Kodak was interested in our detectors. They made the DCS200ir -infrared version- on special request from us. I have the first one made. 3 years ago I called and asked for a Monochrome version of the M9. One of the engineers remembered me and the DCS200ir from 20 years ago. "I am two for two".


The original Sony Mavicas and other 1980s cameras were "Still-Video" technology, stored an analog still frame on a special floppy disk and used a video frame grabber to digitize off the media. I tossed a box of the 2" floppies several years ago- should have kept them. The first Digital sensor that we flew used 7-track computer tape for storage, the second used 28-track High-density Digital Tape. 11GBytes of storage, 30 years ago. It filled up in 20 minutes.

Truesense is making detectors for the high-end photography, science/technical, and surveillance markets. Some of the detectors are innovative, such as sparsely populated color filter array to offer increased resolution of monochrome with color differentiation. Lower volume, higher cost per copy. If they play it right, they could recover the NRE and then push some of the advanced sensors into the consumer market. "We'll see".