Groupon rant

[nmerrick]

I thought groupon paid you right after it was done, and the money was free to spend. Or do you mean you do not touch the money until they schedule, so you can use it to pay for the prints and stuff they order, so you wont be out of pocket later?

Groupon paid me in 3 equal installments - 1 right after and the other two spaced 30 days apart. However, I got $30 for each one sold, but the cost of servicing each one if they only ordered what was in the package was almost $20. I therefore had to keep $20 aside for each Groupon sold for when the client redeemed it. So, yes, it's so that I won't be out of pocket later.

What do you mean it was hard and had to be careful to upsell?

Well, someone buys a package for sat $59 and it includes a couple of prints, but we can't stop there - we need to upsell them to a larger print, perhaps a wall portrait, in order to make a real profit. By using proven projection sales techniques and treating them exactly the same as a regular client, I was able to get them to purchase at least a 16x20 canvas and other gift prints. However, the sales process did feel a lot harder than it usually does for the regular clients.

Nigel

 

[GerryDavid]

it sounds like you forced them into buying more. I do not believe in pressure sales. If I was a customer and received pressure sales, I would not go back to the studio. I want repeat customers.

I show them the pictures and let them buy what they want. Normally there are 25 picturse that they love out of a couple hundred *usually 3 or 4 of each unique pose* and encourage them to get the album. Most people love the albums. Ive started to show them a large print at the picture viewing, so far im 1/1 on this technique, and if it doesnt sell I plan to just put it on display somewhere for a while.

Selling shouldnt be hard.

 

[Robin Usagani]

what nmerrick was saying is exactly what I think how the groupon promo should be ran. 50-100 capped.

 

[nmerrick]

it sounds like you forced them into buying more. I do not believe in pressure sales. If I was a customer and received pressure sales, I would not go back to the studio. I want repeat customers.

I think you misunderstood - there is no pressure selling involved at all, and if they want to leave without buying more, I don't make them feel bad. Most of them have done just that and still given me great testimonials to use. What I am saying is that we can't treat them as though we don't expect them to buy more just because they are a Groupon customer. I put them through my sales process and more often than not they see the benefit of hanging a 16 x 20 on the wall instead of having an 8x10 to lose in a drawer.

I don't believe in pressure selling one bit, nor manipulation. I've built my business around giving my clients what's best for them. However, in order to be successful we do need to adopt good sales techniques, such as projection sales and selling down (not up).

I show them the pictures and let them buy what they want. Normally there are 25 picturse that they love out of a couple hundred *usually 3 or 4 of each unique pose* and encourage them to get the album. Most people love the albums. Ive started to show them a large print at the picture viewing, so far im 1/1 on this technique, and if it doesnt sell I plan to just put it on display somewhere for a while.

Selling shouldnt be hard.

So are you saying that you spend money up front on a large print on the chance they might buy it? How large is it? Why not just project a 30 x 40 onto a canvas in a frame?

If it were me, I would feel pressured into buying when presented with a print that way, but maybe that's just me.

An album is a great idea and I do use those as add-on sales for the photographs they don't want as wall portraits or gift prints. Like you say, people love the albums.

What about the other photographs that you show them, how do they see those?

 

[GerryDavid]

I think you misunderstood - there is no pressure selling involved at all, and if they want to leave without buying more, I don't make them feel bad. Most of them have done just that and still given me great testimonials to use. What I am saying is that we can't treat them as though we don't expect them to buy more just because they are a Groupon customer. I put them through my sales process and more often than not they see the benefit of hanging a 16 x 20 on the wall instead of having an 8x10 to lose in a drawer.

I don't believe in pressure selling one bit, nor manipulation. I've built my business around giving my clients what's best for them. However, in order to be successful we do need to adopt good sales techniques, such as projection sales and selling down (not up).

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I do free portraits time to time, and I always present them with a chance to buy more. I figure it doesnt hurt to try.

At first the free ones were for portfolio building and I got some great images from those. The latest set of free portraits were for a beauty pageant awards.

So are you saying that you spend money up front on a large print on the chance they might buy it? How large is it? Why not just project a 30 x 40 onto a canvas in a frame?

If it were me, I would feel pressured into buying when presented with a print that way, but maybe that's just me.

An album is a great idea and I do use those as add-on sales for the photographs they don't want as wall portraits or gift prints. Like you say, people love the albums.

What about the other photographs that you show them, how do they see those?

I dont usually spend money up front, with the exception of the print, and only if I have a model release signed ahead of time, so I know I can display it with out any problems. some people do not like their picture shown unless they have full control. So the release is a way to find out and make sure there are no problems. There are to many people here with guns.

The one time I did the wall print was a 16x20 from Sams club for $6, so not that much out of pocket, and if they go for it, its $125 additional sales. Im always updating the photos in the hair salon I got pics in so either way I would probably spend that, may as well get more sales. The Sam's here does a great job, not as good as WHCC but for half the price *on the 16x20* and for a much faster turn around *same day instead of 4 days* Sam's is good for this and for promotional materials.

I just show the pictures on the computer, go through once and make note of which ones they like, then either put those online for them to make a choice at home or go through again and make the sale right there. I give them a price sheet with all my various items for sale, show them the printed album and canvas on the wall. Once I can justify it, I want to setup a canvas collection on the wall, but doing the math the 6 piece collection I want to do will cost $600. Thats one 24x32 or something like that, two 16x20's and three 8x10 or three 8x8. I figure once people see these they will love them.

 

[nmerrick]

This is starting to get a little off the original topic, but is interesting nonetheless.

Regarding the 16x20 Sam's print, would you really sell that to a client when you know it's not the top quality it could be if you sourced it from WHCC? What about the mounting? I'm sure it's not mounted at Sam's, or is it? How are they going to frame it in that case? For me, there's too much at stake to have prints made anywhere but at a pro lab, regardless of the difference in cost.

You mentioned that a canvas cluster collection would be great to have in the studio, which I agree with completely. However, at a material cost to you of $600, not including the time spent retouching etc, that's a $2,400 collection to sell with a standard 25% cost of sale. That would be a great sale to make, for sure, but I can't see how you would sell that by showing them their images at a small scale on a computer monitor. Sure, they might love the examples you have on the walls, but those are not their images, and in my experience samples don't sell anything except the idea. Without seeing their images at the appropriate size, most people focus purely on the price, and the sale is more likely lost.

Have you thought about adopting a projection sales strategy? I used to sell from the computer, just as you mentioned, but switched to projection on the advice of my mentor, Charles Lewis. The first sale paid for the projector. Since then, my average portrait sale has gone from about $125 to over $750, and I don't even have an optimal set-up. I just feel that you might be hurting your sales and leaving money on the table.

One sale could easily buy your wall sample collection

Nigel

 

[GerryDavid]

The backing is an upgrade, and so far no one has chosen it. You can get many nice 16x20 or larger frames that cant use the backings. The main difference between a pro lab and a consumer lab is the colors are maintained for consistency. some consumer labs do this as well. The 2ndary difference is the paper, but when the consumer lab does a pretty good job, and when im in a time crunch, I'll go to sams. but 99% of my customers work comes from whcc.

The projector is interesting, dont really have the money for it at this time. As you said the first sale with increased sales could pay for it, but I dont have the capability of purchasing it at this time.

 

[swoop_ds]

I've booked three of my 87 shoots so far. Most people who have contacted me aren't 100% sure when they want to do the shoot but want to do it in Spring/Summer. I'm going to try and get a projector for proofing part of each order and see how that goes.

-Dave

 

[Cinka]

$69??? Holy smoke! What a deal. If she brings in $24,000 from this deal at 600 shoots, that's her whole year. She only made $24,000 for one year! That's below the poverty limit. On the other hand, she's created a MASSIVE client base in one year. Next year she'll get referrals.

 

[GerryDavid]

$69??? Holy smoke! What a deal. If she brings in $24,000 from this deal at 600 shoots, that's her whole year. She only made $24,000 for one year! That's below the poverty limit. On the other hand, she's created a MASSIVE client base in one year. Next year she'll get referrals.

You are forgetting upsells and those that do not claim the coupon.

 

[Robin Usagani]

Another rant! $75 anywhere within 50 miles and you get 15 HIGH RESOLUTION files!!!!! Wow.

Adam & Eve Photography Deal of the Day | Groupon Denver

 

[FatBoy]

Another rant! $75 anywhere within 50 miles and you get 15 HIGH RESOLUTION files!!!!! Wow.

Adam & Eve Photography Deal of the Day | Groupon Denver

That's a losing proposition right there...
It was established that the business only gets about 50%. So they are down to $37.50.
The photographer is willing to travel up to 50 miles one way. (100 Miles Both ways / 20 MPG / 3.50 Gallon = 17.50) Down to $20.00.
Up to two hours travel time, 30-45min session, plus say two hours to select, process, and edit 15 images (if they're really good.. or bad I suppose.) ($20/4.5 hours) They are making $4.44/hour.
Giving away your hard work for free---- PRICELESS!

I understand there is the possibility of upselling but I wouldn't bank my business on a possibility; especially when the only chance at not losing money is relying on upsales.

 

[Robin Usagani]

i think you pretty much lose the upsales if you give them high resolution files! Also it is not very clear whether you will only see 15 or you will see more pictures and you decide which 15 you want.

 

[FoggyLens]

I've booked three of my 87 shoots so far. Most people who have contacted me aren't 100% sure when they want to do the shoot but want to do it in Spring/Summer. I'm going to try and get a projector for proofing part of each order and see how that goes.

-Dave

Dave how has it been going with your groupon?

 

[swoop_ds]

So far so good I guess. I've only been contacted by about 10% of the people so far which is good and bad at the same time. I've only actually shot one (an engagement shoot) and I'm shooting another one this weekend. Then I have like one or so a week for awhile. I dono when or if the other 90% are gonna all of a sudden contact me but I assume more will once it starts to get nicer out.

As for the one that I did shoot. I got about $100 worth of upsells out of them and that was an online proofing (I wanted to do in person but they were 'too busy' and I didn't force it like I should have).

I'll try to update more as time passes.

-Dave