Head Shot

[Photo Lady]

I agree that the photograph would have looked much better without any collars on the dog. This was a candid taken during training and not a set up portrait. The collars were on the dog for training purposes when I took the shot in this thread and it is obvious that the dog is quite content with her situation.

Mike

Oh i totally understand.. you did a great photo

 

[Irishwhistler]

@Photo Lady first off I apologize to Mike for getting off on a tangent from his post, but I agree that the photo would have been even better without the collar shown prominently.

In my lifetime I've raised/trained German Shepards, English Shepards, Doberman, Boxer, Brittany and a couple Yorkies. Never found a need to resort to a pinch collar

i think if you are a professional trainer you would not need the pinch collar on any dog.. but i do believe if you are new at training.. you do need the help of available tools.. but then this is where the problem comes in.. do you have enough knowledge to use the tools. and are you patient enough not to be abusive with the tool.. thats what i would be concerned about.. and i think most people should opt out of using this.. and seek a professional trainer..oh yes, i am not blaming the photographer one bit.. most people would not know about this collar and all its pros and cons.. he took a gorgeous photo of a beautiful dog..

Smoke,
I have been training, competing, hunting, and living with Labs for nearly 40 years. My personal Labs and those of others that I have worked with, are happy, well adjusted, obedient, and given the best of care. I have used these tools as needed, properly, and am by no means lacking competence as a trainer. The right tool, for the specific objective, properly applied, and done so humanely.

I think we are in close agreement on much of our overall approach, and would say we agree to disagree on some specifics, not because either of us are wrong, rather, just philosophically not in synch.

Mike

 

[smoke665]

I think we are in close agreement on much of our overall approach, and would say we agree to disagree on some specifics, not because either of us are wrong, rather, just philosophically not in synch.

I'd say we're pretty close in agreement on everything but the pinch/prong collar. I've always been against any training method who's sole purpose is to inflicts pain to force an animal into submission, be it a collar on a dog, or an bit in a horse's mouth. Not sure that's a philosophical difference as much a moral difference on my part. In any case I believe that you are a professional in training and act accordingly.

 

[Irishwhistler]

I think we are in close agreement on much of our overall approach, and would say we agree to disagree on some specifics, not because either of us are wrong, rather, just philosophically not in synch.

I'd say we're pretty close in agreement on everything but the pinch/prong collar. I've always been against any training method who's sole purpose is to inflicts pain to force an animal into submission, be it a collar on a dog, or an bit in a horse's mouth. Not sure that's a philosophical difference as much a moral difference on my part. In any case I believe that you are a professional in training and act accordingly.

Smoke,
I have my own moral compass and I am quite comfortable in the bearing it holds. There is a clear delineation betwixt causing an animal pain and that of momentary discomfort. I recognize that fully and do not seek to cause any dog I work with pain. The dog's I work with and their owners would certainly attest to my caring nature and treatment for them. The high level of motivation exhibited by them, their passion for their work and training, and their constant desire to be with me tells the whole story better than I can adequately express in words. Be it my own dog or those of others, I treat them with respect, kindness, and a caring regard.

Mike

 

[LRLala]

Very nice picture, attentive dog. I have a yellow Lab, but she's not a bird hunter. She's a fantastic gopher hunter, though! Digs them right out of the ground.