help me UNDERSTAND speed lights for portraits, please

andrewdoeshair · Mar 2, 2017

I've been using a speed light both on and off camera for about a year now to take pictures of my haircuts while working in a busy salon (often to make the busy salon disappear in the background of an image, like the first one posted below) and I have a pretty good idea of how to control my results using one speed light, but I recently quit my salon and got a small studio so I can spend more time taking better photos of hair. I also bought two more speed lights and some shoot through umbrellas (the studio is so small that soft boxes or reflective umbrellas eat up the whole room. I hope the shoot through's will work).
The reason I capitalized the word "UNDERSTAND" in the title of this thread is that I've been doing a lot of monkey see, monkey do with the three speed lights, but something isn't clicking for me. I only have absent teachers (youtube and you all) so by the time I'm in my studio fiddling I find myself guessing a lot, and not grasping what my results are "supposed to" look like. I see pro photographers do brief tutorials online and of course they get the shot perfect then say "see, it's that easy." Some days I'll play at like, F11 with the speed lights set to a pretty high power, and I'll get a dark moody feel outside of the subject, and other days I'll shoot around F4 with the speed lights set to a weaker power and just kind of get spotty results with light shadows behind the subject (see second two pics). I feel like everyone looks too shiny- does that mean that my umbrellas are a joke? Are my flashes too far away? Or are they just shiny people, and I need to hire make up to fix them? I don't know how close the lights should be, I don't know where a good starting point is for my camera settings or my flash settings, I don't know what the ideal "three point lighting" result is supposed to look like, and I don't know what to adjust when things just don't look right (three lights pointed at a head, I guess I should try killing one at a time to see what they're each doing? Maybe get some modeling lights? Is that a thing you can do with speed lights? see how lost I am?!)

Do you guys have any recommendations for resources to learn this as simply as possible? I'm happy to hear any thoughts or recommendations at all. Thank you much!

Derrel · Mar 2, 2017

You are doing pretty well, for speedlight work. The issue is SIMPLE: speedlights have zero modeling lights,so you lose the most-salient benefit of "studio" lighting when you use speedlights instead of conventional studio monolights or flash heads and power supplies.

People look "shiny" because shoot-through umbrellas and speedlights tend to, at times, create a small central hot spot in the overall umbrella size, and that hot central zone causes a fairly specular light on the skin, especially on brows, noses,chins, cheek curves, or any other rounded surface of the face. Light behaves the same all over the world, and the shoot-through unbrella has a definite "look"--and part of that includes the too-shiny, more-specular look you mentioned. NOW--in B&W, that degree of sheen on the foreheads, cheeks, nose, etc--can look GOOD! B&W and color look best with different liughting most of the time.

Lighting is all about what you WISH to achieve...you've got a prety good handle on things now, but if you want to really progress, you'll stop "Shooting blind"with speedlights, and move to real studio flash gear--which has contantly on modeling lamps, so you can literally SEE what your lights are doing, in 100% REAL TIME!

Honestly, I would buy some used Speedotron pack-and-head gear, and step into a classic American system that has been refined since the days of Eisenhower.Not kidding. Buy FOUR, identical light units and a used D402 power supply, and learn to light by WYSIWYG, by using identical lights.

Set the pack at half-power, and get to work creating awesome haircut photos. Best part is, on e-Bay a system like this, used, will cost you maybe $275...FOUR lights, and one, 4-outlet, 400-Watt-second power supply. You do not need variable power all that much...you move the lights a few inches, and there's your 2/10 stop adjustments.

And....get a reflecting umbrella, a few metal reflectors, some 10,20,anmd 30 degree grids, a barn door set, and 5 mylar dfiffusers. Look up the Speedotron web site to see what basic studio lighting control is like.

Right now, you're shooting with three sets of $29 shears...if you get my drift. You need to move up to professional-grade shears. Your are working with a tool set that is limiting you. You want to do "higher end work", but you are lacking multiple REALLY, REALLY helpful tools: modeling lights; different metal reflectors, lacking a 10 and 20 degree honeycomb grid,lacking snap-on mylar diffusers,lacking barn doors for spill control, and so on.

andrewdoeshair · Mar 2, 2017

Dang, thank you. Here I keep blaming my skill/understanding. I've been told that speed lights are plenty for my tiny (10x10 foot) studio, but I think I will look into some real strobes and some better light modifiers.

OGsPhotography · Mar 2, 2017

Derrel FTW!

There is also www.strobist.blogspot.com if you want to learn more about speedlighting. A lot of the info on strobist applies to studio/ monolights as well.

OGsPhotography · Mar 2, 2017

Your photos are good, with practice and better modifiers you can do better with the strobes.

Designer · Mar 2, 2017

andrewdoeshair said:
Dang, thank you. Here I keep blaming my skill/understanding. I've been told that speed lights are plenty for my tiny (10x10 foot) studio, but I think I will look into some real strobes and some better light modifiers.

The main advantage I see in Speedlights is their portability. You probably should not give up entirely on using speedlights because you might want to use them out in the field sometime.

Since you are doing professional photography, you can expense or depreciate your photography equipment.

fmw · Mar 2, 2017

Looks like you are on the right track. Don't be shy about lighting the background.

zombiesniper · Mar 2, 2017

You can pack a lot of studio into a 10X10 space.

table1349 · Mar 2, 2017

Strobist: Lighting 101

This should give you plenty to think about and try.

cherylynne1 · Mar 2, 2017

Picture Perfect Lighting by Roberto Valenzuela really helped me. He also has some very well-reviewed Creative Live classes if videos are more your thing.

Derrel · Mar 2, 2017

It's not thgat speedlights cannot handle a 10x10 foot shooting area; it is that they have feewer dedicated modifiers to shape the light, and ity is harder to mount larger modifiers than it is with monolights or conventional old-school flash heads. On a mono/flash head, you have mounting lugs for metal reflectors of various beam spreads: small reflectors for "spill-kill"on umbrella shafts, 7" for shooting thru scrims or for using grids; something in the 10 to 11.5 inch for a larger refletive bowl, also for grids and to use with barn doors and diffusing sheets; a 16-inch parabolic, a 20-inch parabolic, and a 20- and or a 22-inch beauty dish.

These reflectors just lock-in to the lugs. Softboxes that use speed rings also just have their speed ring "lock-in" to the lugs. Speedtreon Univeral mount is one: Bowens is another common mount; all mnakers have a prorietary "fit" or "mount". THis makes it very easy to buy accessories that mount easily and quiockly and securely, without the need to make crazy lash-ups to get things connected.

If you want less specularity on the people, less shiny skin, look for a reflecting umbrella, not a shoot-thrugh, one that has a soft, dull white VINYL interior, which gives the most diffused light, or look for something like the Lastolite Umbrella Box, which works VERY nciely with speedlights, and also has a nice light quality. There are a lot of low-cost shoot-throughs where the thin fabric does not diffuse the light very muich, and thgat leads to those hot spots: the hot spot is caused by the hot, centrally-lit "core" of the speedlight hitting mostly the entral part of the shoot-0through fabric; a reflecting unmbrella with a soft, dull-white interior gives a softer, broader light, with less of that central hot-spot.Even smallish, 32-inch refelvting umbrellas are easier to work with than most shoot throughs.

The Strobist site is mostly about speedlighting, and it is good. David Hobby classifies things as speedlights, and then what he calls "big lights", or studio flash system level lighting gear.

andrewdoeshair · Mar 3, 2017

Thanks for all the advice! Today I bought two off-brand mono lights from a local camera store to experiment. They were like $225 each, but the next step up that the store had were $900 each (next step down was $100 each) so hopefully these are a good value. I made sure they had the bowen mounts, modeling lights that brighten and dim along with the flash power (some source online said this is a good feature to have), optical slave function, and the ability to kill the beeeeeeep (most negative reviews about cheaper lights focused on the fact that the annoying beep couldn't be turned off). These lights are rated at 200w/s (I hope my abbreviation is correct enough there) but I'm imagining since they're still "cheap" that the manufacturer was being hopeful or confident when making that claim, they're probably actually not as powerful as that. Although I did notice immediately with them a lot more power and a faster recycle than my speed lights (I've got a Canon 530ex or whatever model that is, and three yongnuos). I figure with these new lights I can experiment with more serious modifiers than I could with speedlights. I've got 15 days to return the lights, and I have a shoot scheduled for Sunday, so hopefully they'll handle my needs and if not I can get back to the drawing board. I've been shopping around for better modifiers, too, but I don't want to buy them until after I'm sure these lights will work for me.
Side note, while a 10x10 foot studio might be plenty for photo needs, mine is split up to cover hair and makeup needs as well, so it's kind of important for me to be able to stash away my lights while I'm working on hair, then get them all set up in 8 minutes to shoot the hair when it's ready. I usually keep a continuous LED going during a haircut to help me see through the hair to the scalp (See first pic. It's a fun little space). I wish I could set up mono lights and leave them up forever, but they have to come down at the end of every shoot, and when they go up they have to go up quickly. Because of this I haven't been looking at 40" soft boxes or anything with a big boom or sandbag needs. I need small, simple, basic, but effective. I'm even considering screwing a cold shoe into the wall near the ceiling so I can get a hair light up there without an obtrusive stand taking up space in my little room. I might be hoping for too much. I've been happy enough with small simple continuous lights (second pic) or even the ambient light from the built-in lights in the room (third pic) that if this whole lighting attempt fails I can keep on keeping on. I just have to keep trying, I guess.

Derrel · Mar 3, 2017

Hey, cool! Monolights!Yes, 200 Watt-seconds is ample. Bowens is a great mount to be affiliated with. Recycle time is definitely faster than what speedlights on batteries can provide, AND monolights can typically shoot for more shots than speedlights, which can overheat under rapid prolonged shooting--which is where studio flash units are typically the best choice, since they have cooling by convection or by blower fan.

Smaller softboxes, like 28 x 28 square with grid can easily be supported on something like an Avenger brand C-stand, with no need for a boom or counterweight.

Try one light from 50 to 72 inches distance, and see what it does. Experiment!

Keep in mind, with a shoot-through, one typically gets 60% of the light going throughk, the other 40% bouncing backward, are refleting off nearby walls or ceilings--which is called "ambient spill". Ambient spill can provide fill light, OR it can make things look very, very flat and dull. In small rooms, it's important to use reflectors that keep the side-ways spill from hitting ceilings or the subjects, so use the spill-kill small reflectors on the monos when using shoot-throughs.

Looking forward to hearing about your lighting adventures!

dasmith232 · Mar 3, 2017

It sounds like you'll be able to use these nicely. You're right that power claims are sometimes exaggerated. A common entry-level monolight is 150w/s, with the next level often being 300w/s or 400w/s. So if 200 actually drops a bit, you're still in the 150w/s ballpark. Not tons of power, but enough to get the job done.

Derrel's already covered the other comments nicely. I'll just add a confirmation that yes, the variable (or proportional) modeling light is very nice. I think you'll like it.

One last thing about softboxes, I have a few different brands including Westcott, some other brand I don't remember at this point, and Flashpoint. The thing I wanted to mention about Flashpoint is I really like their softbox design with the zip-up feature. Despite Flashpoint being a "house brand" (which may put some people off) it's actually my favorite one. The "zip-up" versions are in the "PZ" series. Here's a link to one of their demos.

I have no connection or affiliation with Adorama or any other supplier, just providing my experience.

Edit: I put in a link, but it gets shown as an embedded video. This is not my video, and I'm not trying to infringe upon anyone's copyrights... If there's a better way to link this video (admins), please let me know and I'll be happy to do that.

andrewdoeshair · Mar 11, 2017

I got a 16" beauty dish with a grid and a sock diffuser thingie, and I got a 20" reflector. After fiddling with them and taking like 50 selfies I made a good deal of progress as far as understanding how to control where the shadows will fall (the orange/yellow modeling light is amazing. The tint makes it easy to see where the light is landing on the face, and I imagine a whiter modeling light would be harder to read). With the grid in place I don't get lights splashing all over the backdrop like I had with my speed lights and umbrellas. I think the speed lights are about to collect some dust for a while!

Sorry for the whole life story here, but I leave my tiny studio in the middle nowhere to work in LA one day a month, taking clients for haircuts. Usually when I do that I bring a photographer to shoot them after I do their hair (I rent a chair at a really hip private salon, and I've found that when clients leave with photos of their new hair it adds a lot to their experience. I think of it like they're buying the full model experience and I treat their hair like I treat models for a shoot. My job is really to make people feel cool, and showing them the shot on my laptop does that a lot better than only handing them a mirror). Yesterday I brought my new toys and shot my own stuff, and I was very happy with the results compared to what I'd been doing with speed lights...

I just screwed up and didn't think about a hair light, so most of my "hair photos" barely show any hair. Should I bring one of my speed lights with a snoot for a hair light, or would another reflector do the trick? Also, my dinky light stand is sketchy under the beauty dish, can anyone recommend a compact (and hopefully fast to set up or tear down) stand with a boom arm? The strobe and beauty dish are on the light side for what a strobe and beauty dish can weigh, I don't think I need something super beefy, especially since I usually shoot with the model seated, and think I could get away with having the stand even a few inches off from the center of the dish... Price isn't really an issue, but space and portability are. I borrowed a C stand last week and could barely open it in my studio (maybe this one was just extra jumbo and maybe they make smaller ones).

Thanks for reading. I wanted to post the progress in case anyone is stuck with my same problems then goes digging for a set of answers. Hopefully I can figure out at least a temporary hair light solution tomorrow (probably a rolled up paper and duct tape snoot on a speed light, until I find a proper solution)