How do people become like this...

[MartinCrabtree]

Out of every harvest there is bad stock. No one did it,it just is. Why can't anyone accept that? How does assigning blame make a difference?

 

[JTPhotography]

I assume by that you mean Adam & Eve, because there is nothing new about this situation.

Watch the movie "Idiocracy", then report back.

Read Book on history instead of going to the movies and report back. There are no Cliff Notes on the human existence.

We agree that the problem is not new, what is new is that it is getting really bad, really fast. The meth heads and lazy immature idiots are breeding meth heads and immature idiots. I work with these people. I see it first hand.

 

[limr]

"In addition, numerous studies have found that children who live with their fathers are more likely to have good physical and emotional health, to achieve academically, and to avoid drugs, violence, and delinquent behavior"

https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubs/usermanuals/fatherhood/chaptertwo.cfm

there is a lot of info on this though. And not saying saying a person growing up without a father or a less than great father cannot exceed and do well. Just looking at the over all info and statistics available it seems there is direct link between fathering and many of the social issues. While there will always be violence as it is natural to a extent a large contributor to overwhelming violence and social issues is the parenting, and most often the fathering. Which for a long time was dismissed as everyone put attention on the mothers being the primary influence (turns out they aren't).

I would like to know if those numerous studies have also controlled for all other possible variables other than father/no father. How much of this effect is due to the fact that single-mothers are more likely to already be poor? Have they controlled for the idea that poverty, and not just the lack of a father, results in increased violent behavior? Do they compare families of the same socio-economic, cultural, and geographical location or are they comparing ANY family that does not include a father? Does "no father" mean simply that the mother and father are not married, or if there is no involvement whatsoever by that father? Perhaps the father lives elsewhere but is still involved in the child's life in a significant way. Is that factor considered? Who paid for all these studies?

I'm not saying these studies are wrong, but whenever someone says "studies show..." it immediately triggers these questions. There is always more to the story than a report about what 'studies say...'

Out of every harvest there is bad stock. No one did it,it just is. Why can't anyone accept that? How does assigning blame make a difference?

Assigning responsibility and understanding the underlying causes of a pattern of behavior can help change that behavior. If you're constantly bleeding from your ears, do you want to just simply keep putting cotton in your ears to sop up the blood, or do you go to a doctor to figure out why you're bleeding so you can, you know, STOP BLEEDING.

 

[table1349]

Watch the movie "Idiocracy", then report back.

Read Book on history instead of going to the movies and report back. There are no Cliff Notes on the human existence.

We agree that the problem is not new, what is new is that it is getting really bad, really fast. The meth heads and lazy immature idiots are breeding meth heads and immature idiots. I work with these people. I see it first hand.

Horse apples. All that has changed is that society has brainwashed itself with all the " we are civilized" crap they want to feed themselves. Ask the 95 million that lost their lives in a mere 5 years of a world war. Ask the millions upon millions upon millions that have lost their lives in the name religion of one form or another. All civilizations in history bar none have been violent, most far more violent than what happens today. We like to delusion ourselves into thinking we as in humans are the greatest thing that ever happend on this planet. Frankly, we as humans are the biggest cluster F#&% on the planet.

Well enough of this fun, I'm off to the Forum to watch the Romans feed more Christians to the Lions. Oh wait, I think we have gotten past that bit of violent fun and the show has been closed down.

 

[bribrius]

"In addition, numerous studies have found that children who live with their fathers are more likely to have good physical and emotional health, to achieve academically, and to avoid drugs, violence, and delinquent behavior"

https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubs/usermanuals/fatherhood/chaptertwo.cfm

there is a lot of info on this though. And not saying saying a person growing up without a father or a less than great father cannot exceed and do well. Just looking at the over all info and statistics available it seems there is direct link between fathering and many of the social issues. While there will always be violence as it is natural to a extent a large contributor to overwhelming violence and social issues is the parenting, and most often the fathering. Which for a long time was dismissed as everyone put attention on the mothers being the primary influence (turns out they aren't).

I would like to know if those numerous studies have also controlled for all other possible variables other than father/no father. How much of this effect is due to the fact that single-mothers are more likely to already be poor? Have they controlled for the idea that poverty, and not just the lack of a father, results in increased violent behavior? Do they compare families of the same socio-economic, cultural, and geographical location or are they comparing ANY family that does not include a father? Does "no father" mean simply that the mother and father are not married, or if there is no involvement whatsoever by that father? Perhaps the father lives elsewhere but is still involved in the child's life in a significant way. Is that factor considered? Who paid for all these studies?

I'm not saying these studies are wrong, but whenever someone says "studies show..." it immediately triggers these questions. There is always more to the story than a report about what 'studies say...'

Out of every harvest there is bad stock. No one did it,it just is. Why can't anyone accept that? How does assigning blame make a difference?

Assigning responsibility and understanding the underlying causes of a pattern of behavior can help change that behavior. If you're constantly bleeding from your ears, do you want to just simply keep putting cotton in your ears to sop up the blood, or do you go to a doctor to figure out why you're bleeding so you can, you know, STOP BLEEDING.

Read Book on history instead of going to the movies and report back. There are no Cliff Notes on the human existence.

We agree that the problem is not new, what is new is that it is getting really bad, really fast. The meth heads and lazy immature idiots are breeding meth heads and immature idiots. I work with these people. I see it first hand.

Horse apples. All that has changed is that society has brainwashed itself with all the " we are civilized" crap they want to feed themselves. Ask the 95 million that lost their lives in a mere 5 years of a world war. Ask the millions upon millions upon millions that have lost their lives in the name religion of one form or another. All civilizations in history bar none have been violent, most far more violent than what happens today. We like to delusion ourselves into thinking we as in humans are the greatest thing that ever happend on this planet. Frankly, we as humans are the biggest cluster F#&% on the planet.

Well enough of this fun, I'm off to the Forum to watch the Romans feed more Christians to the Lions. Oh wait, I think we have gotten past that bit of violent fun and the show has been closed down.

agree. But you are talking about a different type of violence. we are discussing whether the child had a good father to grab they by the ears and tell them to stop when they were 12 to prevent them from ending up in jail from doing a violent act when they are 20. Aggression in war is something else entirely.

limr: I haven't read up on this in a few years, I did my research, came to my conclusion in agreement with most of what was available and I moved on. For anyone questioning I always encourage people to do their own research. Im obviously not going to go pull up twenty studies, provide links and in depth reviews and explanations for each. I do think from the latch key generations and perhaps before as divorce became more prevalent, and fathers neglected to fulfill their roles for a variety of reasons (mothers as well) society has paid the price for it. Nature made children to be formed and have emotional growth in certain ways and we neglected to accept that for too long assigning women the primary role of raising children, to our own faults. knowing quite a few single dads, im happy to report men can be exceptional parents, though we may not get the hair braided correctly...
in answer to one of your questions, far as I recall single mothers are a disproportionate amount of the low income and poverty. And lower income and poverty are a large percentage of those that inevitably end up in legal issues from crime and continue low income into the next generation and on federal or state assistance..low income is a contributing factor. But even in middle income households without a active father role model the percentage of problems from the offspring increases.

 

[table1349]

"In addition, numerous studies have found that children who live with their fathers are more likely to have good physical and emotional health, to achieve academically, and to avoid drugs, violence, and delinquent behavior"

https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubs/usermanuals/fatherhood/chaptertwo.cfm

there is a lot of info on this though. And not saying saying a person growing up without a father or a less than great father cannot exceed and do well. Just looking at the over all info and statistics available it seems there is direct link between fathering and many of the social issues. While there will always be violence as it is natural to a extent a large contributor to overwhelming violence and social issues is the parenting, and most often the fathering. Which for a long time was dismissed as everyone put attention on the mothers being the primary influence (turns out they aren't).

I would like to know if those numerous studies have also controlled for all other possible variables other than father/no father. How much of this effect is due to the fact that single-mothers are more likely to already be poor? Have they controlled for the idea that poverty, and not just the lack of a father, results in increased violent behavior? Do they compare families of the same socio-economic, cultural, and geographical location or are they comparing ANY family that does not include a father? Does "no father" mean simply that the mother and father are not married, or if there is no involvement whatsoever by that father? Perhaps the father lives elsewhere but is still involved in the child's life in a significant way. Is that factor considered? Who paid for all these studies?

I'm not saying these studies are wrong, but whenever someone says "studies show..." it immediately triggers these questions. There is always more to the story than a report about what 'studies say...'



Assigning responsibility and understanding the underlying causes of a pattern of behavior can help change that behavior. If you're constantly bleeding from your ears, do you want to just simply keep putting cotton in your ears to sop up the blood, or do you go to a doctor to figure out why you're bleeding so you can, you know, STOP BLEEDING.

We agree that the problem is not new, what is new is that it is getting really bad, really fast. The meth heads and lazy immature idiots are breeding meth heads and immature idiots. I work with these people. I see it first hand.

Horse apples. All that has changed is that society has brainwashed itself with all the " we are civilized" crap they want to feed themselves. Ask the 95 million that lost their lives in a mere 5 years of a world war. Ask the millions upon millions upon millions that have lost their lives in the name religion of one form or another. All civilizations in history bar none have been violent, most far more violent than what happens today. We like to delusion ourselves into thinking we as in humans are the greatest thing that ever happend on this planet. Frankly, we as humans are the biggest cluster F#&% on the planet.

Well enough of this fun, I'm off to the Forum to watch the Romans feed more Christians to the Lions. Oh wait, I think we have gotten past that bit of violent fun and the show has been closed down.

agree. But you are talking about a different type of violence. we are discussing whether the child had a good father to grab they by the ears and tell them to stop when they were 12 to prevent them from ending up in jail from doing a violent act when they are 20. Aggression in war is something else entirely.

No, you are talking about a bunch of bull**** fluff to make yourself feel good about being human. Listen to yourself, "grab they by the ears". There we go, we humans have to teach our young not to be bad, not to be violent by being violent to them. How ironic and so typically human.

 

[bribrius]

I would like to know if those numerous studies have also controlled for all other possible variables other than father/no father. How much of this effect is due to the fact that single-mothers are more likely to already be poor? Have they controlled for the idea that poverty, and not just the lack of a father, results in increased violent behavior? Do they compare families of the same socio-economic, cultural, and geographical location or are they comparing ANY family that does not include a father? Does "no father" mean simply that the mother and father are not married, or if there is no involvement whatsoever by that father? Perhaps the father lives elsewhere but is still involved in the child's life in a significant way. Is that factor considered? Who paid for all these studies?

I'm not saying these studies are wrong, but whenever someone says "studies show..." it immediately triggers these questions. There is always more to the story than a report about what 'studies say...'



Assigning responsibility and understanding the underlying causes of a pattern of behavior can help change that behavior. If you're constantly bleeding from your ears, do you want to just simply keep putting cotton in your ears to sop up the blood, or do you go to a doctor to figure out why you're bleeding so you can, you know, STOP BLEEDING.

Horse apples. All that has changed is that society has brainwashed itself with all the " we are civilized" crap they want to feed themselves. Ask the 95 million that lost their lives in a mere 5 years of a world war. Ask the millions upon millions upon millions that have lost their lives in the name religion of one form or another. All civilizations in history bar none have been violent, most far more violent than what happens today. We like to delusion ourselves into thinking we as in humans are the greatest thing that ever happend on this planet. Frankly, we as humans are the biggest cluster F#&% on the planet.

Well enough of this fun, I'm off to the Forum to watch the Romans feed more Christians to the Lions. Oh wait, I think we have gotten past that bit of violent fun and the show has been closed down.

agree. But you are talking about a different type of violence. we are discussing whether the child had a good father to grab they by the ears and tell them to stop when they were 12 to prevent them from ending up in jail from doing a violent act when they are 20. Aggression in war is something else entirely.

No, you are talking about a bunch of bull**** fluff to make yourself feel good about being human. Listen to yourself, "grab they by the ears". There we go, we humans have to teach our young not to be bad, not to be violent by being violent to them. How ironic and so typically human.

this isn't about feeling good, it is about teaching your children, giving them affection, and disciplining them so they become secure responsible adults.

 

[limr]

agree. But you are talking about a different type of violence. we are discussing whether the child had a good father to grab they by the ears and tell them to stop when they were 12 to prevent them from ending up in jail from doing a violent act when they are 20. Aggression in war is something else entirely.

limr: I haven't read up on this in a few years, I did my research, came to my conclusion in agreement with most of what was available and I moved on. For anyone questioning I always encourage people to do their own research. Im obviously not going to go pull up twenty studies, provide links and in depth reviews and explanations for each. I do think from the latch key generations and perhaps before as divorce became more prevalent, and fathers neglected to fulfill their roles for a variety of reasons (mothers as well) society has paid the price for it. Nature made children to be formed and have emotional growth in certain ways and we neglected to accept that for too long assigning women the primary role of raising children, to our own faults. knowing quite a few single dads, im happy to report men can be exceptional parents, though we may not get the hair braided correctly...
in answer to one of your questions, far as I recall single mothers are a disproportionate amount of the low income and poverty. And lower income and poverty are a large percentage of those that inevitably end up in legal issues from crime and continue low income into the next generation and on federal or state assistance..low income is a contributing factor. But even in middle income households without a active father role model the percentage of problems from the offspring increases.

Nor did I expect you do. I should have been clearer in expressing that these were more theoretical questions and concerns that I would ask myself and research before I came to my own conclusions. I didn't mean to direct them specifically at you, but that was my fault for not clarifying.

I do expect that a number of the credible studies would control for such factors - otherwise they wouldn't be credible! But I was trained too well to poke holes first. With further research, some of those holes turn out not to be holes at all, but rather a solid piece of the wall, but we wouldn't know to check if we didn't know how to identify where the weaknesses might be.

 

[JTPhotography]

Read Book on history instead of going to the movies and report back. There are no Cliff Notes on the human existence.

We agree that the problem is not new, what is new is that it is getting really bad, really fast. The meth heads and lazy immature idiots are breeding meth heads and immature idiots. I work with these people. I see it first hand.

Horse apples. All that has changed is that society has brainwashed itself with all the " we are civilized" crap they want to feed themselves. Ask the 95 million that lost their lives in a mere 5 years of a world war. Ask the millions upon millions upon millions that have lost their lives in the name religion of one form or another. All civilizations in history bar none have been violent, most far more violent than what happens today. We like to delusion ourselves into thinking we as in humans are the greatest thing that ever happend on this planet. Frankly, we as humans are the biggest cluster F#&% on the planet.

Well enough of this fun, I'm off to the Forum to watch the Romans feed more Christians to the Lions. Oh wait, I think we have gotten past that bit of violent fun and the show has been closed down.

Disregard my previous statement suggesting that you watch "Idiocracy", you must have been one of the characters. :lmao:

 

[bribrius]

We agree that the problem is not new, what is new is that it is getting really bad, really fast. The meth heads and lazy immature idiots are breeding meth heads and immature idiots. I work with these people. I see it first hand.

Horse apples. All that has changed is that society has brainwashed itself with all the " we are civilized" crap they want to feed themselves. Ask the 95 million that lost their lives in a mere 5 years of a world war. Ask the millions upon millions upon millions that have lost their lives in the name religion of one form or another. All civilizations in history bar none have been violent, most far more violent than what happens today. We like to delusion ourselves into thinking we as in humans are the greatest thing that ever happend on this planet. Frankly, we as humans are the biggest cluster F#&% on the planet.

Well enough of this fun, I'm off to the Forum to watch the Romans feed more Christians to the Lions. Oh wait, I think we have gotten past that bit of violent fun and the show has been closed down.

Disregard my previous statement suggesting that you watch "Idiocracy", you must have been one of the characters. :lmao:

I know, right. I would have used the people trampling over each other and injuring each other on the yearly black Friday shopping rush for a example..
Much of human nature is at a primitive state beneath that veil I mentioned however, so I tend to sort of agree with gryphon to a extent as well. I would contend if the u.s., for example lost electric power for three weeks thousands of people would probably kill each other and loot, much like new Orleans quick decline after Katrina. So the veil is very thin, or if one were to consider it walking on ice it doesn't take much to crack it and fall through as is human nature. And there is evidence that genetics plays a partial role even as learned behavior and upbringing are the primary causes. Much of our societal issues have nothing to do with that though imo, as they are direct parenting issues and we all pretty much have electricity and food..

 

[mmaria]

just a quick update... I spoke with one of the guys who work in the amusement park and was a part of that incidence:

- guys are recovering...
- they're 22 and 25 years old
- they'll sue two Police officers because apparently they called them two times and the Police were late that both times. The first time B, I and two other bullies started the fight in front of a discotheque. Police came and didn't do basically nothing. When Police left B and I followed the guys and then all from the first post happened, in front of my house. The Police should provide them sheparone when the first accident happened and there were also other mistakes... so inspector told the guys that they can sue that officers.
- B and I are in custody and they are known to the Police but somehow (bribe and money) they always got away.

 

[JacaRanda]

I don't know but... calling these guys sick, to me, is just like erasing their fault and responsibility...

They don't have any of mental illness and they don't do drugs.

I really did not mean mental illness kind of sick and certainly did not mean they are not responsible for their actions.
If I was not typing in the forum, I would have put the 'F'ing-word in front of the word sick in each category, or simply the 'F'-word after the word sick in each category.

The more I think about it, I do think they are mentally ill and still responsible.

 

[SCraig]

It's very important to remember and understand that not all values can be measured using our concepts of right and wrong. Life is very, very cheap in some countries, even in some areas of "Civilized" countries. Whereas most people put a very high price on human life it isn't that way everywhere or for everybody. There are places where people will cut someone's throat for the price of a hamburger with no more thought than most would give to stepping on a bug.

 

[leeroix]

What sucks is - these people keep breeding and thus perpetuating and compounding the problem. Their bad behavior is passed on from one generation to the next... in a sense, "teaching" (or dumbing down) the great characteristics that you saw...It will get worse, and worse... I live in a very bad neighborhood, I see it everyday.

 

[SCraig]

What sucks is - these people keep breeding and thus perpetuating and compounding the problem. Their bad behavior is passed on from one generation to the next... in a sense, "teaching" (or dumbing down) the great characteristics that you saw...It will get worse, and worse... I live in a very bad neighborhood, I see it everyday.

You are absolutely right. But the truly sad thing is that no matter how bad your neighborhood is it can't hold a candle to some parts of the world.